Faith and secularism

Discuss Irish and International politics
smashingpumpkin
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Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2008 9:06 pm

Post by smashingpumpkin » Fri Oct 31, 2008 4:52 pm

it looks like obama will do it,
but i would'nt be surprised if mcain pulls it out of the bag.

the scary thing is that the republican party are apparantly already planning for 2012 with sarah palin as the candidate!

say what you want about john mcain but at least he's not a creationist nutcase.
bipedalhumanoid
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Post by bipedalhumanoid » Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:30 pm

DollarLama
Atheist Ireland Member
Atheist Ireland Member
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Post by DollarLama » Wed Nov 05, 2008 1:55 pm

I was wrong (and I'm, glad I was) about the Bradley effect.
nozzferrahhtoo
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Post by nozzferrahhtoo » Wed Nov 05, 2008 2:03 pm

smashingpumpkin wrote:it looks like obama will do it,
but i would'nt be surprised if mcain pulls it out of the bag.

the scary thing is that the republican party are apparantly already planning for 2012 with sarah palin as the candidate!

say what you want about john mcain but at least he's not a creationist nutcase.
Many people think it was her that ruined the campaign. It was the choice of her as VP and the prospect of her as president that turned the likes of Christopher Hitchens to the democrat side.

So I do hope she is the nominee for 2012, it will mean 4 more years of obama.
BubbleWrap
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Post by BubbleWrap » Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:38 pm

In the Washington Post, Gene Robinson said "The world will never forget this moment," I'm wondering when the time will come when we see an atheist president. Then we'll have another 'world will never forget' moment.

How about a black, atheist, female president for a moment not to forget!
FXR
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Post by FXR » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:21 pm

DollarLama wrote:I was wrong (and I'm, glad I was) about the Bradley effect.

So now they'll shoot him................ 8)

Shooting Presidents is an American tradition. It's as Americna as apple pie..
Human communication is a very rickety rope bridge between minds. Its too narrow to allow but a few thoughts to cross at a time. Many are lost in the chasms of noise, suspicion, misinterpretation and shooting the message through dislike of the messenger.
micfur
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Post by micfur » Thu Nov 06, 2008 8:24 am

DollarLama wrote:Nah, he won't get assassinated. He just won't get elected. What's the elephant in the room that nobody in the media talks about but is the first thing in every US voter's mind?
So that myth has been put to bed. How about the other 'elephant in the rooom' that 95% of black people voted for Obama. Can we call them racists or is that only reserved for white people?
inedifix
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Post by inedifix » Thu Nov 06, 2008 12:07 pm

micfur wrote:How about the other 'elephant in the rooom' that 95% of black people voted for Obama. Can we call them racists... or is that only reserved for white people?
That depends on the number of black voters who voted for Obama because McCain is white, as opposed to those who voted for him because they think he was the best man for the job.

The analysis suggests that around 17% of both whites and blacks, voted for racial reasons. So I guess the answers to your questions are no, 95% of black voters aren't racist, but around 17% might be. And no, it isn't reserved for only white people, although it could be a factor for around 17% of them.

I
“What we call chaos is just patterns we haven't recognized. What we call random is just patterns we can't decipher. What we can't understand we call nonsense. There is no free will. There are no variables. There is only the inevitable.” Chuck Palahniuk
micfur
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Post by micfur » Thu Nov 06, 2008 1:08 pm

inedifix wrote:
micfur wrote:How about the other 'elephant in the rooom' that 95% of black people voted for Obama. Can we call them racists... or is that only reserved for white people?
That depends on the number of black voters who voted for Obama because McCain is white, as opposed to those who voted for him because they think he was the best man for the job.

The analysis suggests that around 17% of both whites and blacks, voted for racial reasons. So I guess the answers to your questions are no, 95% of black voters aren't racist, but around 17% might be. And no, it isn't reserved for only white people, although it could be a factor for around 17% of them.

I
Couldn't agree more. So why then one wonders do we hear so much about "the bradley effect" (it even gets a name to help its credibility) yet hear nothing about similar attitudes in black people?

The general trust of the point being, this whole white guilt thing. Liberals love white guilt as much as catholics love guilt about, well most things I guess. And its a sin they love to hang around the necks of rural types rather than sophisticated city folk. All helps the stereotyping from the intolerant tolerant. Even now when Obama romps home, the talk is about a reverse Bradley effect where redneck voters are keen to be anti-Barak in public while secretly voting for him, speculation morphing into fact. The important thing for liberals is to be right about this no matter what the truth is.
inedifix
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Post by inedifix » Thu Nov 06, 2008 7:46 pm

micfur wrote:Couldn't agree more. So why then one wonders do we hear so much about "the bradley effect" (it even gets a name to help its credibility) yet hear nothing about similar attitudes in black people?
micfur wrote:The important thing for liberals is to be right about this no matter what the truth is.
Yeah, think the operative bit from the article I posted in my last post is this one:
“It says something about race and our culture that we were more likely to attribute racial motivation to people who disagree with us than to people who agree with us,” said Kathy Frankovic, the director of surveys at CBS News.
I think this may apply as much to you as it does to the US electorate, Micfur.
micfur wrote:The general trust of the point being, this whole white guilt thing. Liberals love white guilt as much as catholics love guilt about, well most things I guess.
I guess 260 years of legalised slavery followed by 100 years of Jim Crow Laws topped up by the whole resistance to civil rights thing, had an effect on some white Americans. But there are still plenty on whom it didn't. Racism is always a complex issue to asses, but one thing is sure: it's never a level playing field.

I
“What we call chaos is just patterns we haven't recognized. What we call random is just patterns we can't decipher. What we can't understand we call nonsense. There is no free will. There are no variables. There is only the inevitable.” Chuck Palahniuk
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