Illegal to offend Muslims in Holland

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Stublore
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Re: Illegal to offend Muslims in Holland

Post by Stublore » Sat Feb 20, 2010 6:34 am

Under Dutch law Mein Kampf is banned, I think on the basis that it's a vile, hate filled book.
GW is merely saying that if that's the criteria for banning a book, well then the koran meets that in spades, and should also be banned.
(NOTE: I don't agree with banning books, it's bloody stupid).
Rev j.jones
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Re: Illegal to offend Muslims in Holland

Post by Rev j.jones » Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:45 am

no one can agree with anyone completly on wide and varied issues.

when we see the isuues worrying us being energised on any stage we are entitled to support aspects of the issuers policy. It is unfotunate that the system off elections we use force this position but it does not condone ignoring issues simply because an man was elected on transfers (or similar).

the only way to stop the results in elections like this is to reduce representation, this would work, it would reduce the seats and thus the use of transfers. it is also one view

one other view is; that by paying for the level of representation we do, it affords us the oportunity to debate rationally on wider issuses.

it was remarked to me recently; do you think Copernicus was crazy because he was religious, I said I did because of his fixed delusion, I dare concede Copernicus hit patches of lucidity too, I'm not denying the scitzo facet of fixed delusions.


I prefer the video in the link to demonstrate the effect of the forced extension of the maturbateus maxmemus period in every young mans life.
muna d'titim na liathróidi go luath, b'fhéidir gur dthan siad suas go faóil,

http://www.factsofisrael.com/blog/archives/000621.html



edit: spelling, pronoun, this and that
Last edited by Rev j.jones on Sun Feb 21, 2010 6:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
"The Meek a'int gonna inherit shit"
"I've got a hell of a lot of weapons to fight! I got my claws, I got cutlasses, I got guns, I got dynamite, I got a hell of a lot of fight! I will fight!" Rev Jones cured religion for 950 americans.
Rev j.jones
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Re: Illegal to offend Muslims in Holland

Post by Rev j.jones » Sun Feb 21, 2010 4:12 am

lostexpectation wrote:do you or do you not want to ban islam? he does.
NO I DONT. Are you stupid?[/quote]

I 'd say he'd settle for just holland, he has no juristiction outside of europe,
lostexpectation wrote:Are you stupid?
stop it!! (pls)
lostexpectation wrote:and Christianity isn't?
there is an Algorithim for the conversion of islama crzy units (iCU) and christano crazy units (cCU), its just easier on super computer time if we compare religions to more Numerically Discrete Standards,
"The Meek a'int gonna inherit shit"
"I've got a hell of a lot of weapons to fight! I got my claws, I got cutlasses, I got guns, I got dynamite, I got a hell of a lot of fight! I will fight!" Rev Jones cured religion for 950 americans.
Feardorcha
Atheist Ireland Member
Atheist Ireland Member
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Re: Illegal to offend Muslims in Holland

Post by Feardorcha » Sun Feb 21, 2010 10:02 pm

It will be interesting to see how Geert Wilders and party will do in the upcoming general election in the Netherlands.
Rev j.jones
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Re: Illegal to offend Muslims in Holland

Post by Rev j.jones » Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:45 pm

well I can tell ya now, When he's elected again, i'll have to listen to same people tell me how the sovereign will of the dutch is wrong, or if he's not elected the very same people will be telling me how right the dutch are.
"The Meek a'int gonna inherit shit"
"I've got a hell of a lot of weapons to fight! I got my claws, I got cutlasses, I got guns, I got dynamite, I got a hell of a lot of fight! I will fight!" Rev Jones cured religion for 950 americans.
HylandPaddy
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Location: Co. Donegal

Re: Illegal to offend Muslims in Holland

Post by HylandPaddy » Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:26 am

The Dutch have a right to vote for him. I respect free speech and free democratic elections regardless whether I agree or disagree with their views.
But if he gets elected, I think we can agree it's because of his views on muslims. He gets elected by spreading fear and disinformation about muslims. Sure he might show a film about female genital mutulation and suicide bombers, but then he says 'this is Islam' which is misrepresentive. It's like showing IRA bombings and saying all Irish people support the killing of civilians. You can't tar an entire group with the actions of a fringe of nutters.
Just like the catholics of the North, muslim leaders say that they are being oppressed, but if you elect a bigot into office then your pushing moderates into the extremists' hands. And he is a bigot, I have no time for a man who demonises an entire group of people.
Islam is a non-threat, do you really think they can stand up to the West's military and economic might? The Muslim countries of the Middle East can't even hold off Israel, what makes you think they can take the world.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-Carl Sagan
Rev j.jones
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Re: Illegal to offend Muslims in Holland

Post by Rev j.jones » Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:55 pm

Hyland wake up man. first of all Its not just Geert Wilder saying this stuff its, its not just theo van gough either.

every single male muslim has had their genitals mutilated, everyone, circumcision is practised on girls aswell as boys, why do you have difficulty believing that it happens to the girls aswell. How is genital mutilation is not representative of islam?

There are many poor and oppressed cultures on the planet why is islam the only one producing suicide bombers? name me an act of terrorisim in the world that has been carried out in the last 10 years that did not involve islam.
HylandPaddy wrote:It's like showing IRA bombings and saying all Irish people support the killing of civilians.
no paddy its not like that at all, the IRA is a seperate organisation to the irish people, the irish state spent half its time over the last thirty years trying to Jail IRA people. It's not like your suggestion at all Paddy.
HylandPaddy wrote:You can't tar an entire group with the actions of a fringe of nutters.
to quote Sam Harris "Islam is a fringe without a centre"

there is no extremeisim in Islam, Islam is extreme by our standards but its just Islam to its adherants, there are only moderates who have no basis for their moderatisim.
HylandPaddy wrote:Just like the catholics of the North, muslim leaders say that they are being oppressed,
The catholics of the north of Ireland were oppressed harshly for many years, I cannot think of a single western government that has oppressed islam in anything like similar circumstances that the Irish had to endure, to attempt to draw simile between the hardships suffered by these to cultures in western soceity, is an attempt to lie.
HylandPaddy wrote:I have no time for a man who demonises an entire group of people.
paddy the entire group of people you refer to believe the Koran is the un errant and literal word of god. the new new testament if you will, the koran is a blueprint for how to spread Islam over the world. the koran says to kill unbelievers, an unbeliever is someone who does not believe in islam. It is ok to lie cheat steel kill and rape unbelievers.
HylandPaddy wrote:Islam is a non-threat, do you really think they can stand up to the West's military and economic might?
its happening while you gas, the muslim population of europe is 54million now it was 2million thirty years ago. if this trend continues islam will have a voting majority in europe within 50 years without a shot being fired. wake up man
HylandPaddy wrote:The Muslim countries of the Middle East can't even hold off Israel, what makes you think they can take the world.
israel has nuclear weapons no one is going to move them without incurring serious casulties. only two islamic states have nuclear weapons neither want a war with israel. what makes me think they can take the world, they are doing it right now as you read this, in every western democracy the islamic populations are increasing all the time and fast. you seem to assume that the only way to take over a country is to have a war, this is not the case, birth rates are far more effective, the only war will be when westerners finally wake up to whats happening hopefully it won't be too late but it would want to happen soon, the muslims won't start a war they have everything going their way they'll just sit back keep poppin out sprogs and wait, just like we're doing in Northern Ireland.
"The Meek a'int gonna inherit shit"
"I've got a hell of a lot of weapons to fight! I got my claws, I got cutlasses, I got guns, I got dynamite, I got a hell of a lot of fight! I will fight!" Rev Jones cured religion for 950 americans.
HylandPaddy
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Re: Illegal to offend Muslims in Holland

Post by HylandPaddy » Wed Feb 24, 2010 3:09 am

Rev j.jones wrote:There are many poor and oppressed cultures on the planet why is islam the only one producing suicide bombers? name me an act of terrorisim in the world that has been carried out in the last 10 years that did not involve islam.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorist_incident
Scroll down to the 2000s, I was going to write out all the non-islamic attacks but got bored. Sure there are Islamic attacks but they don't have the monoply.
For suicide attacks why not try the Liberation Tigers of Talil Eelam (LTTE), wikipedia says (with citations):
They invented the suicide belt and pioneered the use of suicide bombing as a tactic.[12][13] They also pioneered the use of women in suicide attacks,[14] and used light aircraft in some of their attacks

Rev j.jones wrote:
HylandPaddy wrote:It's like showing IRA bombings and saying all Irish people support the killing of civilians.
no paddy its not like that at all, the IRA is a seperate organisation to the irish people, the irish state spent half its time over the last thirty years trying to Jail IRA people. It's not like your suggestion at all Paddy.
It's not like that, is it? Oh so every muslim and every Islamic country in the World is in with Al-Qaeda. It's all one big conspiracy, and you figured it all out Rev.


Rev j.jones wrote:
HylandPaddy wrote:You can't tar an entire group with the actions of a fringe of nutters.
to quote Sam Harris "Islam is a fringe without a centre"
Thanks, I forgot that Sam Harris' opinion was fact.


Rev j.jones wrote:
HylandPaddy wrote:Just like the catholics of the North, muslim leaders say that they are being oppressed,
The catholics of the north of Ireland were oppressed harshly for many years, I cannot think of a single western government that has oppressed islam in anything like similar circumstances that the Irish had to endure, to attempt to draw simile between the hardships suffered by these to cultures in western soceity, is an attempt to lie.
The muslim leaders say they are being oppressed and advocate violence. The muslims who don't want violence then see, I don't know, Burkas being banned in school, planning permission for minerats being turned down, politicians that are openly antagonistic to Islam being elected and (the part you cut off in my quote) then get pushed into the hands of the extremists. My correlation with NI was that some people didn't want violence but when they were singled out for searches etc. (Like muslims in airports) there was a perception of oppression, which can be worked on by the radicals.


While reading up for discrimination against muslims I came across this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia
The Runnymede report identified eight perceptions related to Islamophobia:

1. Islam is seen as a monolithic bloc, static and unresponsive to change.
2. It is seen as separate and "other." It does not have values in common with other cultures, is not affected by them and does not influence them.
3. It is seen as inferior to the West. It is seen as barbaric, irrational, primitive, and sexist.
4. It is seen as violent, aggressive, threatening, supportive of terrorism, and engaged in a clash of civilizations.
5. It is seen as a political ideology, used for political or military advantage.
6. Criticisms made of "the West" by Muslims are rejected out of hand.
7. Hostility towards Islam is used to justify discriminatory practices towards Muslims and exclusion of Muslims from mainstream society.
8. Anti-Muslim hostility is seen as natural and normal.
This is my problem with you Rev, I'm not siding with Islam. I want Islam gone like any other religion, but I am not going to discriminate against people who happen to be muslims. We has similar veiws but your a little too far along the close-minded "All muslims want to kill the West". You tick many of the above boxes.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-Carl Sagan
Rev j.jones
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Re: Illegal to offend Muslims in Holland

Post by Rev j.jones » Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:47 pm

I'll have to concede that one to you only 98% of all the terrorisim in the world is related to Islam, what was I thinking, that 2% make all the difference, but I guess the important thing is that not every single act of terrorisim is related to islam.

I am aware of the Tamil Tigers use of suicided bombers, I also forgot the Kamakasi of world war 2, but as long as the point is made that not every single suicide bomer is Islamic.

Strawmanery:
HylandPaddy wrote:It's not like that, is it? Oh so every muslim and every Islamic country in the World is in with Al-Qaeda. It's all one big conspiracy, and you figured it all out Rev.
#


more strawmanery
HylandPaddy wrote:Thanks, I forgot that Sam Harris' opinion was fact.

but it is usefull to know that you are capable of confusing oppinion and fact.
HylandPaddy wrote:The muslim leaders


this phrase gotta go,the leaders of islam are that only they do not lead anyone else,. the muslim's leaders or the leaders of islam or the leaders of muslims are all gramatically correct phrases for what I believe you are trying to express.

HylandPaddy wrote:My correlation with NI
was an out and out lie only qualified by the more recent post.
Irish people in northern Ireland were not just saying they were being oppressed they were actually being oppressed. muslims are not being oppressed by anyone except themselves.

islamophobia as easily describes adhearants as those who careless about islam.

I do not tick any of those boxes.

I had an open mind, years ago, I went and I worked with Aboriginies and I learned alot about their culture enough to say that their kind decent people who have no megalomaniacal tendancies, I went and I learned alot about the Brits enough to say that their a fairly decent bunch who have no megalomaniacal tendancies, I went and I learned about the Yanks enough to qualify me to say that altough their fairly slow their a pretty decent bunch who have no megalomaniacal tendancies.

I went and I learned about islam enough to qualify me to say that they take their holy book too seriously, a sinificant proportion of them have megalomaniacal tendancies, the one with the megalomaniacal tendancies have all the power within Islam and also those of them that don't want to take over the world can't give me a reason from the koran why not.
HylandPaddy wrote:"All muslims want to kill the West"
this is more strawmanery but usefull again, it is not that I believe that all muslims want to kill the west, their are modrate muslims but they have no basis for their moderateisim, this is why they have no power in islam, the koran says that islam must cover the world any moderation of this view is seen as going against islam and the moderate has no power.

Get the idea out of your head that I'm suggesting islam will bring a war to your door, islam will bring no war to your door you'll wake up some morning and the islamic vote will win a referendum thats it,
"The Meek a'int gonna inherit shit"
"I've got a hell of a lot of weapons to fight! I got my claws, I got cutlasses, I got guns, I got dynamite, I got a hell of a lot of fight! I will fight!" Rev Jones cured religion for 950 americans.
HylandPaddy
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Location: Co. Donegal

Re: Illegal to offend Muslims in Holland

Post by HylandPaddy » Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:32 am

Rev j.jones wrote:I'll have to concede that one to you only 98% of all the terrorisim in the world is related to Islam, what was I thinking, that 2% make all the difference, but I guess the important thing is that not every single act of terrorisim is related to islam.
98% of terrorism is related to Islam but not neccesarily 98% of muslims are terrorists.
I assume your using the figure 98% rhetorically.

I suppose "the muslim leaders" can mean (1)"The leaders, (who themselves are muslim)." or (2)"The leaders of the muslims."
Just like "the fat eaters" can mean (1)"The eaters, (who are themselves fat)." or (2)"The eaters of fat."
They can be both noun-noun or adjective-noun.
Rev j.jones wrote:Strawmanery:
HylandPaddy wrote:It's not like that, is it? Oh so every muslim and every Islamic country in the World is in with Al-Qaeda. It's all one big conspiracy, and you figured it all out Rev.
#
Rev said:"so you no longer dispute that the islamists conspiracy of trying to take over the world the debate is now about how sucessful they are being at it." Blasphemy!-Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:31 am

Rev j.jones wrote:I do not tick any of those boxes.
1. Islam is seen as a monolithic bloc, static and unresponsive to change.

Rev said: "...the koran is not open to interpretation by muslims the second a muslim contemplates contradicting the koran he is no longer a muslim..."
Rev said: "so we agree that the islamic empire is attempting to expand"
Blasphemy!-Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:37 am

Rev said:"the koran says to kill everyone who refuses to convert to islam no muslim can argue with the koran or he must be killed."
Blasphemy!-Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:28 am

Rev said:"its just not getting through is it, all muslims (all, everyone) believe that the every word of the koran is the word of god and that it cannot be argued with or interpreted"
Blasphemy!-Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:32 am

Not every muslim takes the Koran as literal truth.



3. It is seen as inferior to the West. It is seen as barbaric, irrational, primitive, and sexist. & 4. It is seen as violent, aggressive, threatening, supportive of terrorism, and engaged in a clash of civilizations.

Rev said:"so that empire the one thats expanding, the one thats opening a sharia school in dublin, the one thats building mosques all over ireland, the one that has been involved in all wars of the last thirty years, the one that has been involved in all terrorisim of the last decade, the one that use rape as a means of maintaining order, the one that uses sexism as a means of control of women, that one the one that you defend in ignorance."
Blasphemy!-Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:54 pm

Rev said: "...I garuntee you if you have met ten muslims you have met two who wanted to kill you."
Blasphemy!-Thu Feb 18, 2010 6:46 pm


5. It is seen as a political ideology, used for political or military advantage.

Rev said:"islam is not a religion it is a political system."
Blasphemy!-Wed Feb 17, 2010 9:28 am

Rev said: "the difficulty westerners have is understanding that islam is not a religion."
Blasphemy!-Wed Feb 10, 2010 7:42 pm
------------------------------------------------
I apologise for quoting from another thread, it's unfair but these are things you've said. Stop backtracking and contradicting yourself. I agree that Islam is dangerous, I've met good people who are muslims. Not everyone is a nutter-that's all I'm saying.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
-Carl Sagan
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