Arrested for burning koran!

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Dev
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Re: Arrested for burning koran!

Post by Dev » Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:27 pm

Mirthomaniac wrote:Look up Thunderf00t's video on the subject: he plans to download 500,000 copies of the Qur'an onto an old HDD and then burn that. It is an act of defiance here - maybe one of those 1/100 cases where it's not done from fear or hatred, but in opposition to the spreading of those things?
As an aside this is an interesting example - I didn't have to expect to define a book. Feckin' digital age challenging conventional understandings.

I guess I've thrown loads of pdf books into my OS X trash can and haven't equated it with throwing it in to a real bin. So I guess that would be okay with me. I still find the idea of destroying a hard drive a bit silly.
Feardorcha wrote: My goal is to retain the freedom to speak freely and not be silenced by ignorance and superstition.

If enough people burn the Koran - or any other book claimed to hold special powers - those who take to themselves the right to kill people for a perceived insult will be unable to kill us all and we will have salvaged our right to regard books as books and not vessels of the supernatural and we will have slavaged our hard-won, fundamental right to regard ideas as ideas and not be cowed by the threats of those who would silence us.
See I don't think that will happen so I see burning a book as a fruitless pursuit that simply serves to destroy a book.

Have you any examples of when mass book burning has achieved a desired result?
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Re: Arrested for burning koran!

Post by dugges » Sun Apr 10, 2011 10:41 pm

Mirthomaniac wrote: Look up Thunderf00t's video on the subject: he plans to download 500,000 copies of the Qur'an onto an old HDD and then burn that. It is an act of defiance here - maybe one of those 1/100 cases where it's not done from fear or hatred, but in opposition to the spreading of those things?
Couldn't he burn it to a CD??? :lol:

I didn't like DMD, wankers like the BNP and any nut-job fundamentalist just took it as an opportunity to be belligerent - tf00t refered to them as allies of convenience when someone pulled him up on this.

I did take part in the "Have you seen this man" event on YouTube - the premice was to draw a stick figure and have an arrow pointing it saying "Mohammed" - the whole idea was to make an generic image and call it Mohammed.

One submission which I thought was brilliant was someone drew two stick figures and said one of these is the prophet Mohammed and another is Johnny Logan*, but I don't know which is which

*was actually some American celebrity I never heard of

I don't see the benefit of doing things to piss people off, especially the nutters Islam has.
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Re: Arrested for burning koran!

Post by Feardorcha » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:01 pm

Have you any examples of when mass book burning has achieved a desired result?
Obviously not. It has never happened.

But take strike action where people will walk out of their employment over the sacking of a co-worker. The tactic is the same. If enough people do it, they cannot all be victimised.

If enough people burn Korans, the crazies will not be able to carry out all their threats. The same holds true for drawing cartoons, making films, giving public lectures and writing books.

The motivation in this BNP case may well be racial hatred and in the case of the US pastor may well be religous intolerance but unfortunately in defending the principle, we may appear, wrongly, to be defending these views. That's a portion of the price of freedom.
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Re: Arrested for burning koran!

Post by Feardorcha » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:04 pm

If I found myself locked into a room with an AIDS infected gay rapist who had taken a cocktail of sleeping pills and viagra - the last thing I'd want to do is wake him up!!
And when he wakes up, will you fight him or ...?
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Re: Arrested for burning koran!

Post by dugges » Sun Apr 10, 2011 11:25 pm

Feardorcha wrote:
If I found myself locked into a room with an AIDS infected gay rapist who had taken a cocktail of sleeping pills and viagra - the last thing I'd want to do is wake him up!!
And when he wakes up, will you fight him or ...?
I'd use the time to figure out how I can stop my brown cherry from being popped :lol:
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Dev
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Re: Arrested for burning koran!

Post by Dev » Mon Apr 11, 2011 12:28 am

Feardorcha wrote:
Have you any examples of when mass book burning has achieved a desired result?
Obviously not. It has never happened.

But take strike action where people will walk out of their employment over the sacking of a co-worker. The tactic is the same. If enough people do it, they cannot all be victimised.

If enough people burn Korans, the crazies will not be able to carry out all their threats. The same holds true for drawing cartoons, making films, giving public lectures and writing books.

The motivation in this BNP case may well be racial hatred and in the case of the US pastor may well be religous intolerance but unfortunately in defending the principle, we may appear, wrongly, to be defending these views. That's a portion of the price of freedom.
I can cite plenty of cases of union organization bringing positive change.

Effectiveness of this book burning strategy is nil. Reasonable Muslims will choose to ignore such an act, employers can't choose to ignore workers who aren't working.
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Re: Arrested for burning koran!

Post by aZerogodist » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:44 am

"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"
If you burn the Koran on your fire for personal pleasure, does it incite hatred?

I burnt an old picture of jesus that was in my house, I remember growing up with it thinking it was holy and supernatural, it gave me great personal pleasure burning it, throwing off the shackles that the picture represented. No need to upload it onto youtube to anger christians.

I don't think "The Lord of the Rings" analogy pushes the point far enough, If some mussies/BNP’ers burnt an Irish flag, and the Irish constitution and a picture of Daniel O Donnell say up in Donegal, I wouldn't like to see the resulting effect. Also don't forget it's not long ago that these BNP'ers use to kickin "f**king-Irish" heads in London.
Feardorcha wrote:But take strike action where people will walk out of their employment over the sacking of a co-worker. The tactic is the same. If enough people do it, they cannot all be victimised.
One it's not like they're burning the factory down, two you mean if it's a "pack" then it's ok.

If you want to burn the Koran, then burn the meaning or the values of the words in the Koran page by page, till it’s a blank book with a cover. There’s the same crap in the Koran as in the bible.

I think publicly burning the Koran just shows that it has value to you and also that your acting purely out of irrational fear, there is no positive benefit in doing so.

The only people I would agree to burning the Koran is ex-muslims, they deserve the right to do so.
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Re: Arrested for burning koran!

Post by Stublore » Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:22 am

Dev wrote:
Feardorcha wrote:
Have you any examples of when mass book burning has achieved a desired result?
Obviously not. It has never happened.

But take strike action where people will walk out of their employment over the sacking of a co-worker. The tactic is the same. If enough people do it, they cannot all be victimised.

If enough people burn Korans, the crazies will not be able to carry out all their threats. The same holds true for drawing cartoons, making films, giving public lectures and writing books.

The motivation in this BNP case may well be racial hatred and in the case of the US pastor may well be religous intolerance but unfortunately in defending the principle, we may appear, wrongly, to be defending these views. That's a portion of the price of freedom.
I can cite plenty of cases of union organization bringing positive change.

Effectiveness of this book burning strategy is nil. Reasonable Muslims will choose to ignore such an act, employers can't choose to ignore workers who aren't working.
Reasonable muslims may chose to ignore such an act, but they cannot ignore what others do in the name of their religion.
The burning will at least force them to confront that element of their religion(or at least it should!), and surely that's not a bad thing?
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Re: Arrested for burning koran!

Post by ocallaghanbohrdt » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:25 am

It would make more sense to have a Read The Koran Day - a day when any hate- or violence- justifying passages are liberally spread across the internet. All the bits the Imams would prefer the public not to know about (just yet).
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Re: Arrested for burning koran!

Post by nozzferrahhtoo » Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:17 am

I had the idea once to have a book swap day. I imagine it would cause just as much outrage, but doing so in the spirit of mutual understanding between religions rather than singling out one issue for attack.

The way it would work would be to obtain as many “holy” books from as many different religions as possible. Some religions only too happily give theirs away for free so it should not be too hard.

Then in some venue in Dublin City you hold a book swap day where anyone who gives up their holy book, will get 2 others free in exchange from other religions.

This will foster inter religious understanding as it will cause people to read at least 2 books from other religions.

It will likely also foster outrage as the more hardcore fundies will be aghast at the thought of people of their faith giving up their Koran/bible/Krishna/Buddhist/whatever book and receiving unrelated ones in return.

I reckon this would achieve the same statement that pointless book burning does, while doing so in an undeniably better sprit… that of fostering inter-faith understanding rather than making ones statement through calculated offence.

If it were done on a global scale through the help of AAI and such, I imagine it would cause some level of media interest too.
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