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Re: Arrested for burning koran!

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:42 am
by Dev
nozzferrahhtoo wrote: I reckon this would achieve the same statement that pointless book burning does, while doing so in an undeniably better sprit… that of fostering inter-faith understanding rather than making ones statement through calculated offence.
This I could get behind. It's not destructive to books.

Re: Arrested for burning koran!

Posted: Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:51 am
by bipedalhumanoid
As others have pointed out, there is a huge difference between the question of whether you should be allowed to do something and whether you should do something.

The former is about rights and freedoms, the latter is a matter of utility.

Burning books (flamabable physical books burnt by means of an actual fire) does bring to mind images of hatred, ignorance, bigotry and fear. If someone was proposing AI do a book burning day, I'd be opposed to it because the PR we get for it would be bad. People would immediately view us as a fringe organisation motivated by bitogry, hatred and fear. That would damage our cause, not achieve what we set out to achieve and as such, would not have utility.

But that's different to suggesting nobody should be allowed to do it, or even that we should actively condemn those who do it.

Re: Arrested for burning koran!

Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:35 am
by Stublore
bipedalhumanoid wrote:As others have pointed out, there is a huge difference between the question of whether you should be allowed to do something and whether you should do something.

The former is about rights and freedoms, the latter is a matter of utility.

Burning books (flamabable physical books burnt by means of an actual fire) does bring to mind images of hatred, ignorance, bigotry and fear. If someone was proposing AI do a book burning day, I'd be opposed to it because the PR we get for it would be bad. People would immediately view us as a fringe organisation motivated by bitogry, hatred and fear. That would damage our cause, not achieve what we set out to achieve and as such, would not have utility.

But that's different to suggesting nobody should be allowed to do it, or even that we should actively condemn those who do it.
However the problem is that people are not not burning books because of associated images of hatred,bigotry or fear.
They are being told not to burn a book because of a violent islamic backlash.
Is that a the type of society in which we want to live?
One in which fanatics on the other side of the planet determine what our society finds acceptable or not acceptable?

Re: Arrested for burning koran!

Posted: Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:37 am
by bipedalhumanoid
Stublore wrote:
bipedalhumanoid wrote:As others have pointed out, there is a huge difference between the question of whether you should be allowed to do something and whether you should do something.

The former is about rights and freedoms, the latter is a matter of utility.

Burning books (flamabable physical books burnt by means of an actual fire) does bring to mind images of hatred, ignorance, bigotry and fear. If someone was proposing AI do a book burning day, I'd be opposed to it because the PR we get for it would be bad. People would immediately view us as a fringe organisation motivated by bitogry, hatred and fear. That would damage our cause, not achieve what we set out to achieve and as such, would not have utility.

But that's different to suggesting nobody should be allowed to do it, or even that we should actively condemn those who do it.
However the problem is that people are not not burning books because of associated images of hatred,bigotry or fear.
They are being told not to burn a book because of a violent islamic backlash.
Is that a the type of society in which we want to live?
One in which fanatics on the other side of the planet determine what our society finds acceptable or not acceptable?

That's irrelevant to the point I made. You can make the statement that nobody has a right to not be offended, and that violent demands should not be adhered to without killing your organisations credibility with the wider community.

Re: Arrested for burning koran!

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:21 am
by Jerry
Stublore wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011 ... an-burning
A senior member of the BNP who burned a copy of the Qur'an in his garden has been arrested following an investigation by the Observer.

Footage of the burning shows Sion Owens, 40, from south Wales and a candidate for the forthcoming Welsh Assembly elections, soaking the Qur'an in kerosene and setting fire to it.

A video clip of the act, leaked to the Observer and passed immediately to South Wales police, provoked fierce criticism from the government.

A statement from the Home Office said: "The government absolutely condemns the burning of the Qur'an. It is fundamentally offensive to the values of our pluralist and tolerant society.

"We equally condemn any attempts to create divisions between communities and are committed to ensuring that everyone has the freedom to live their lives free from fear of targeted hostility or harassment on the grounds of a particular characteristic, such as religion."
continued on site.
Isn't it hypocritical to say that in a pluralist and tolerant society one cannot perform a non violent act of protest with one's own belongings without the fear/threat of arrest?
What are the Irish atheists view on this issue?
The fact that it was a BNP councillor seems to me to be an irrelevancy.
When did burning your own book, on your own property become a crime in the UK.
Could the same happen here?
Is it right to arrest someone for burning their own book?
Here in the States, it's just "arson".

I can't believe I'm seeing an atheist support book burning, though.

Re: Arrested for burning koran!

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 10:31 am
by Feardorcha
Surely, even in the US, burning paper that you own is not arson.