Woman Miscarries, Charged with Murder.

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Dev
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Woman Miscarries, Charged with Murder.

Post by Dev » Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:51 pm

http://www.alternet.org/reproductivejus ... nant_women

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ju ... er-charges

Don't know what to say other than poor girl. She really doesn't need a legal system that can take a case to this point, this should have been thrown out.
aiseiri47
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Re: Woman Miscarries, Charged with Murder.

Post by aiseiri47 » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:50 pm

That's unbelievable! American society is definitely creeping backwards.

I think that women should try to be responsible during pregnancy - I think taking drugs or doing anything else that harms the developing fetus is quite irresponsible: but because of how it will effect the baby when it grows into a walking, talking person. If a 20 year-old wants to sue their mother because they were born with birth-defects that were directly related to the mother's activity during pregnancy, fair enough. But prosecuting pregnant women for miscarrying whether as a result from their own choices or due to a coincidence is completely out of line. That's placing far too much obsession on an unborn child - something that is not even a functioning human: something that it's mother is.
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Re: Woman Miscarries, Charged with Murder.

Post by Jerry » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:14 am

Dev wrote:http://www.alternet.org/reproductivejus ... nant_women

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ju ... er-charges

Don't know what to say other than poor girl. She really doesn't need a legal system that can take a case to this point, this should have been thrown out.
1. This was not an ordinary, spontaneous miscarriage. The child was born and lived for 4 days before dying. The cause of death was directly related to the mother's suicide attempt.

2. Roe v. Wade section 11 specifically gives the State the authority to limit and even ban abortion in the 3rd trimester. Additional rulings such as Planned Parenthood v. Casey place additional limitations on late term abortion.

3. Finally, this was not a standard medical procedure in a licensed medical facility performed by qualified physicians and medical staff. This was an attempted suicide.

Most pro-choice agree that once the ZEF has higher brain capacity it therefor has sapience and should be legally protected by law to a great degree.

Again, this was not an ordinary early pregnancy miscarriage, this was the death of a born-child resulting from an attempted suicide.
"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."
~~Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Woman Miscarries, Charged with Murder.

Post by funkyderek » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:19 am

Jerry, are you saying this woman should be charged with murder and potentially spend decades in prison for what she did?
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Dev
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Re: Woman Miscarries, Charged with Murder.

Post by Dev » Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:58 am

Jerry wrote:
1. This was not an ordinary, spontaneous miscarriage. The child was born and lived for 4 days before dying. The cause of death was directly related to the mother's suicide attempt.

Again, this was not an ordinary early pregnancy miscarriage, this was the death of a born-child resulting from an attempted suicide.
Jerry I have to ask - did you even read the links?

First, this is an old thread. This news is a year old.
Second, no child was born.
"Gibbs is the first woman in Mississippi to be charged with murder relating to the loss of her unborn baby."
Third, there was no link found between her drug use and miscarriage, meaning she isn't responsible for the miscarriage.
"When prosecutors discovered that she had a cocaine habit – though there is no evidence that drug abuse had anything to do with the baby's death – they charged her with the "depraved-heart murder" of her child, which carries a mandatory life sentence."
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Re: Woman Miscarries, Charged with Murder.

Post by nozzferrahhtoo » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:52 am

I think Jerry is getting confused with the girl the article was inspired by... Rennie Gibbs... and a woman mentioned later in the article who did indeed attempt suicide, give birth, but lose the baby some days later.

Perhaps he read the news a year ago when the thread was started, only got around to replying now, and relied on memory rather than re-reading the links to get his facts on the story? That would explain why the two different cases merged in his mind resulting in this reply.
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Re: Woman Miscarries, Charged with Murder.

Post by Cymru » Wed Apr 25, 2012 12:36 pm

Jerry wrote: 1. This was not an ordinary, spontaneous miscarriage. The child was born and lived for 4 days before dying. The cause of death was directly related to the mother's suicide attempt.

2. Roe v. Wade section 11 specifically gives the State the authority to limit and even ban abortion in the 3rd trimester. Additional rulings such as Planned Parenthood v. Casey place additional limitations on late term abortion.

3. Finally, this was not a standard medical procedure in a licensed medical facility performed by qualified physicians and medical staff. This was an attempted suicide.
I would posit that any woman in a suicidal state is incapable of considering the effects of her actions on her unborn child, and as such cannot be held culpable for the effect of her actions upon that unborn child, regardless of the trimester.

Roe v. Wade and Planned Parenthood v. Casey are irrelevant here. The woman did not abort her child willfully. She attempted to kill herself. Now, had she had a small child and fed rat poison to it at the same time as herself, or had she decided to jump off a building and take the small child with her, that would be murder. As it stands, she did not have a small child - she had a baby inside her. She had no option to leave the child behind and just harm herself. Suggesting that this is in any way the same as killing a separate human being is ridiculous bunk from an uneducated mind, hell-bent on restricting a woman's autonomy based on 2000 year-old patriarchal bullshit.
Jerry wrote:Most pro-choice agree that once the ZEF has higher brain capacity it therefor has sapience and should be legally protected by law to a great degree.
Do you have a source for this "to a great degree"? I would replace it with "to some degree", though I think you'll find that the pro-choice camp would still assert that prosecuting a woman for murder based on an action (attempting suicide, falling down the stairs, taking cocaine before she knew she was pregnant, name it) goes far beyond the legal rights that should be afforded even a third trimester fetus, when taking into consideration the pregnant woman's rights. Even in the anti-choice camp, women are more silent about this than men - it is a crime for which no man could ever be punished, and any woman who might get pregnant is put at risk by it if she so much as slips down a step.
Jerry wrote:Again, this was not an ordinary early pregnancy miscarriage, this was the death of a born-child resulting from an attempted suicide.
That you seem to think this makes the woman LESS deserving of empathy is, quite frankly, highly disturbing.
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