Fiscal treaty

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irishmason
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Fiscal treaty

Post by irishmason » Thu May 17, 2012 4:48 pm

Do you know what an ABS is? A CDO? A CDS? You have not to know it but if you want to know you'll find it in the Internet. What you may be not told is that these are the instrument of crime, who's victims you might be.
It is as follows: Investment bankers and hedgefonds bundled credits, good and bad credits, healthy ones and bad loans such as mortgages, credit cards debts, student credits, financing of enterprises to new securities, the so called: ABS=Asset Backed Securities and CDP's= Collateralized Debt Obligations and sold them to stupid people. At the same time, while the sales were on, the bankers placed bets ( CDS= credit default swaps) on the payment default, because they knew that they were foul and made a nice profit. They could harvest in a fine profit twice. The winners of this dirty game are approx 10 big banks which share 90 % of this trade with a volume of 200 billion Dollars.
Another question; Are you aware of the fact that you are paying tax with every purchase of pampers, scissors or coffemachines? The speculators and foreign exchange dealers with a daily turnover of 2 billion (2 000 000 000 000 ) US Dollars are not paying a cent of tax.
Europe is saving to pay into a barrel without bottom, to deprive the people of their savings and livelihood, the saving will lead us into further recession with loss of jobs, at the end we are all bankrupt and our countries and future is handed over to the international financial market.
The world is influenced by money and greed and avarice. And who is suffering? The bankers? The developers? The speculators? Are they put to justice? No.
Therefore I vote NO, the financial treaty will only lead us into more dependence and misery. FGand Labour should stop brainwashing the people and to tell them what they have to vote. That is not democracy.
Last edited by irishmason on Fri May 18, 2012 9:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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mkaobrih
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Re: Fiscal treaty

Post by mkaobrih » Thu May 17, 2012 10:17 pm

I vote yes cause if you want people to give you stuff you've got to pay for stuff.
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irishmason
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Re: Fiscal treaty

Post by irishmason » Fri May 18, 2012 9:03 am

The church brainwashed the people and told them what to do. The church is denying women their rights, the pope is not better than the mullahs in Iran and other muslim countries who deny women the human rights, they are not better than the ultraorthodox jews who deny women to sit in a bus whereever they want or to pray together with their husbands at the Western Wall, they refuse to listen to female singers, what a world...our so called politicians are no better
, an arrogant Enda and a dumb Gilmore blowing the same horn, not realizing that they have no power even in this small country and only have to jump when the others are wistling. They had not even the courage to put those bankers and developers to justice but they ask us to pay for the mess they and FF created. If atheists in Ireland are as obidient as the catholics, then good night...
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Beebub
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Re: Fiscal treaty

Post by Beebub » Fri May 18, 2012 9:33 am

What's the alternative Irishshamon? You're right that the bankers misdeeds have us in the situation we're in. You're right that they should be brought to justice. However, how by voting no will the bankers suddenly get their commupence?

If we vote no and require a 2nd bailout we can't go back to the Troika. Some may say this is a good thing. But if we can't go back to the bond market once this bailout term runs out, or if we can but subsequently run into further trouble again we won't be able to get a 2nd bailout. Our politicians are saying we won't need a 2nd bailout. Do you believe them?

Without the option of applying for a 2nd bailout we'll rely on ourselves. We'll have to run the country from what we take in. If you think the austerity has been bad to date, what happens if we have to keep a balanced budget to keep afloat?

There will be mass redundancies in the public sector for a start alongside massive cuts accross the board.

The SF/ ULA idea of a wealth tax just doesn't wash. Rich people don't pay tax. It's incredibly unfair, but that's just the way it is. We could try to introduce measures to stop this, but they'll just get around it. The more money you have the more and more ways there are to avoid paying tax through offshore trusts and the like, over which we have absolutly no control. We can't for example tell Cyprus to stop allowing people to have tax free off shore trusts there, where many many rich Irish people currently hold vasts amount of money. If a wealth tax was introduced, the little amount of wealth currently held in Ireland would vanish overnight. There would be no wealth left to tax.

The multinationals would likely start to look elsewhere if we started to go down the swaney which would result in further job losses.

I'm voting yes.
Last edited by Beebub on Fri May 18, 2012 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
Feardorcha
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Re: Fiscal treaty

Post by Feardorcha » Fri May 18, 2012 10:19 am

I'm voting No the first time and then when they negotiate a better deal, I'll have another think about it.
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Re: Fiscal treaty

Post by paolovf » Fri May 18, 2012 10:26 am

I'm disappointed they've gone ahead with the Vote before the Treaty was renegotiated (as Hollande has suggested). They should have listened to Shane Ross.

I was thinking of spoiling my vote, but not sure if that's a good option.
Beebub
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Re: Fiscal treaty

Post by Beebub » Fri May 18, 2012 11:33 am

paolovf wrote:I'm disappointed they've gone ahead with the Vote before the Treaty was renegotiated (as Hollande has suggested). They should have listened to Shane Ross.

I was thinking of spoiling my vote, but not sure if that's a good option.
I honestly don't get the point of deliberately spoiling your vote. They don't differentiate between someone who writes them an essay and attaches it to the ballot and someone who accidentally ticks both boxes or scribbles somewhere on the ballot paper. They'll all simply counted as 'spoiled' and not counted.
paolovf
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Re: Fiscal treaty

Post by paolovf » Fri May 18, 2012 1:00 pm

Beebub wrote:I honestly don't get the point of deliberately spoiling your vote. They don't differentiate between someone who writes them an essay and attaches it to the ballot and someone who accidentally ticks both boxes or scribbles somewhere on the ballot paper. They'll all simply counted as 'spoiled' and not counted.
I think most people that spoil their vote do it as a means to protest. However, as you said, due to the way the counters don't differentiate spoiled votes in anyway, the vote is effectively wasted and you may as well have stayed at home. I guess the hope is that if enough people spoil their vote such that the count results in an unprecedented number of spoiled votes it may be inferred that the voters were dissatisfied with the vote.

I don't want to derail this thread so coming back to this particular Referendum I feel that we have been put in an awkward situation. The Yes vote could have been for something much more favourable if the Fiscal Treaty is renegotiated/restructured towards growth as Hollande seems to favour. Voting No makes us look bad, again, and could put us in a tricky situation as Beebub outlined above.

It seems they will not hold a second referendum. To me, it looks like they've set it up for a mess, either way. I have never spoiled a vote and in this case I don't think it would make any impact. I'm regrettably leaning towards a Yes vote.
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Re: Fiscal treaty

Post by Bik » Fri May 18, 2012 1:04 pm

paolovf wrote: It seems they will not hold a second referendum. .
WoW! I got deja vu just then! :shock:

It'll be a no vote from me and I'll vote no again in a couple of months time.
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Re: Fiscal treaty

Post by Idle-Emma » Fri May 18, 2012 3:19 pm

If we vote no they will have a second referendum. It's what they do because they want to tell us we voted wrong.
I'm voting no this time, and if there's a next time, hope it has a better deal.
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