Fiscal treaty

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irishmason
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Re: Fiscal treaty

Post by irishmason » Sun May 20, 2012 12:27 pm

QUOTE Radio Kerry: 19 May 2012
Health Minister says referendum yes vote will give comfort to investors
The Health Minister says a yes vote in the fiscal treaty referendum will give great comfort to those seeking to invest in Ireland. Minister James Reilly believes the country is starting to recover. ................................... UNQUOTE

We are in SERIOUS TROUBLE if the Health Minister tells us how to vote.
We are urged to vote yes to the stability treaty so that we may be in a position to avail of further "bailout" money from Europe. Bailout for the rotten banks of course not for us.
If, as the treaty insists, we are to live within our means, why should we need to borrow money from anyone? Is there not a contradiction here?
Instead to reduce our debts we will face more debts, which we, not the banks or FG or Labour, will have to pay, it is the Irish citizen and the following generations.
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irishmason
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Do our politician know what they are speaking about?

Post by irishmason » Sun May 20, 2012 12:50 pm

I am in serious doubt that FG and Labour politicians know what they are talking about. I had here canvassers at the door who wanted to convince me to vote yes. Having studied national economics I asked a couple of questions. The reaction was revealing, they had not the slightest idea, only repeating the same rubbish they are told like a prayermill.

Do you know what an ABS is? A CDO? A CDS? You have not to know it but if you want to know you'll find it in the Internet. What you may be not told is that these are the instrument of crime, who's victims you might be.
It is as follows: Investment bankers and hedgefonds bundled credits, good and bad credits, healthy ones and bad loans such as mortgages, credit cards debts, student credits, financing of enterprises to new securities, the so called: ABS=Asset Backed Securities and CDP's= Collateralized Debt Obligations and sold them to stupid people. At the same time, while the sales were on, the bankers placed bets ( CDS= credit default swaps) on the payment default, because they knew that they were foul and made a nice profit. They could harvest in a fine profit twice. The winners of this dirty game are approx 10 big banks which share 90 % of this trade with a volume of 200 billion Dollars.
Another question; Are you aware of the fact that you are paying tax with every purchase of pampers, scissors or coffemachines? The speculators and foreign exchange dealers with a daily turnover of 2 billion (2 000 000 000 000 ) US Dollars are not paying a cent of tax.
Europe is saving to pay into a barrel without bottom, to deprive the people of their savings and livelihood, the saving will lead us into further recession with loss of jobs, at the end we are all bankrupt and our countries and future is handed over to the international financial market.
The world is influenced by money and greed and avarice. And who is suffering? The bankers? The developers? The speculators? Are they put to justice? No.

Therefore I vote NO, the financial treaty will only lead us into more dependence and misery. FG and Labour should stop brainwashing the people and to tell them what they have to vote. That is not democracy.
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irishmason
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Re: Do our politician know what they are speaking about?

Post by irishmason » Sun May 20, 2012 12:52 pm

QUOTE Radio Kerry: 19 May 2012
Health Minister says referendum yes vote will give comfort to investors
The Health Minister says a yes vote in the fiscal treaty referendum will give great comfort to those seeking to invest in Ireland. Minister James Reilly believes the country is starting to recover. ....
He says he has recently been approached by two groups interested in investing in primary care facilities in this country. He says this is a sign of green shoots in our economy and ratifying the fiscal treaty is crucial. UNQUOTE

We are in SERIOUS TROUBLE if the Health Minister tells us how to vote.
We are urged to vote yes to the stability treaty so that we may be in a position to avail of further "bailout" money from Europe. Bailout for the rotten banks of course not for us.
If, as the treaty insists, we are to live within our means, why should we need to borrow money from anyone? Is there not a contradiction here?
Instead to reduce our debts we will face more debts, which we, not the banks or FG or Labour, will have to pay, it is the Irish citizen and the following generations.
Absolute freedom of conscience
Voltaire Lodge No. 2 of Research under the GMOIRL Liberal adogmatic Irish Freemasonry
Liberty, Equality, Fraternity, Secularity, Solidarity
irishmason
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Re: Fiscal treaty

Post by irishmason » Sun May 20, 2012 3:56 pm

The British told the Irish what to do and threatend innocent people
The Church told the Irish what to do and threatens with the fire of hell
Kenny and Noonan not only tell us what to do they threaten us as well with a budget

NO is the answer when I vote
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Re: Fiscal treaty

Post by irishmason » Sun May 20, 2012 11:19 pm

McKinsey estimates that the private debt of 4.6 million Irish amounts to approx 190 billion Euros. Placed in relation to income, their debt is higher than that of Spain , twice as high as in Greece and almost three times as high as in Italy.

Ireland will NEVER get out of their debts, with or without fiscal union, but is extremely depending on economic growth in the Euro zone and that France and Germany are not facing a new recession.
Sure, Germany is suffering, if the export is going down - but Ireland is incredibly deep in the s.....t.

In 2011, the deficit was approx. 10 percent. Therefore the budget gap in Ireland is bigger than in other crisis countries such as Greece, Portugal, Spain and Italy.
A yes vote would bring us nothing only more debts and an economic collapse, a NO vote would bring the message over to the ignoramuses in the government and to the financial circles in Europe
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Beebub
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Re: Fiscal treaty

Post by Beebub » Mon May 21, 2012 10:42 am

irishmason wrote:McKinsey estimates that the private debt of 4.6 million Irish amounts to approx 190 billion Euros. Placed in relation to income, their debt is higher than that of Spain , twice as high as in Greece and almost three times as high as in Italy.

Ireland will NEVER get out of their debts, with or without fiscal union, but is extremely depending on economic growth in the Euro zone and that France and Germany are not facing a new recession.
Sure, Germany is suffering, if the export is going down - but Ireland is incredibly deep in the s.....t.

In 2011, the deficit was approx. 10 percent. Therefore the budget gap in Ireland is bigger than in other crisis countries such as Greece, Portugal, Spain and Italy.
A yes vote would bring us nothing only more debts and an economic collapse, a NO vote would bring the message over to the ignoramuses in the government and to the financial circles in Europe
I get the attitude of some of the no side. I understand that people are pissed off. I can't abide the Shinners and their hypocritical populist bullshit, but I do get that a lot of people are annoyed. However, Irishmason, you still haven't provided an alternative. What happens if we vote no and need a 2nd bailout and can't get it? What then?
Feardorcha
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Re: Fiscal treaty

Post by Feardorcha » Mon May 21, 2012 11:02 am

I can't abide the Shinners and their hypocritical populist bullshit
And you want to discuss the austerity treaty? Perhaps you should go howl at the moon.
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Re: Fiscal treaty

Post by paolovf » Mon May 21, 2012 11:11 am

irishmason wrote:Ireland will NEVER get out of their debts
So does it really matter which way we vote then?
paolovf
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Re: Do our politician know what they are speaking about?

Post by paolovf » Mon May 21, 2012 11:18 am

I don't want to start an argument here but this has already been posted in another thread, entitled "Fiscal treaty".

This is not good forum practice and only serves to degrade the overall discussion. I think this thread should be removed or at the very least diverted back to the other.
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Re: Fiscal treaty

Post by Beebub » Mon May 21, 2012 1:30 pm

Feardorcha wrote:
I can't abide the Shinners and their hypocritical populist bullshit
And you want to discuss the austerity treaty? Perhaps you should go howl at the moon.
I have respect for the no side and I get that people are pissed off. What I don't like is SF exploiting this which they are doing. They come up with policies they know will be popular amongst thier support and beyond but they know they have no short term hope of gaining power and so come up with populist policies they know they won't have to implement.

They're gaining in popularity as a result and may well be in a position to form a coalition in the next government, assuming of course someone would agree to form a government with them, which I don't think will happen in the short term. But if it did, watch how quickly their populist policies would change. We'd be hearing an awful lot more of 'we are where we are' from them than 'introduce a wealth tax and vote no to everything'.
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