Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Issues relating to promoting a secular state education and raising children in a non-religious home
Marks
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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by Marks » Wed Mar 07, 2012 12:19 pm

I am concerned that there are some more VEC Community Schools opening. These are religious schools but just under a different patronage. Interdenominational schools are know internationally as Christian schools. The previous Government has already given an assurance to the Catholic Church that the children of Catholic parents will have the same religious education in these schools.
Puck
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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by Puck » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:00 pm

Tulip1 wrote:I never got any religious education. We got a subject which was called society study (literally translated). Besides politics, economics, the structure of government and law it also covered some religion. The other bit about religion I got was in history classes.

Other than that it was optional to do religion classes which my parents found a waste of time and I studied something else instead.
Very similar to my experience in Oz. I went to several primary schools, all state run, and only one had any sort of religion education. It consisted of the local priest (of whatever persuasion) coming to the school every week (or it may of only been every second week) being given a small, spare room and children being taken out of class for half an hour for their 'RE'. The numbers were small and really never impacted the class room. You didn't even know what religion they were attending.

I do remember my brother (and a quite a few of his class mates) going to religion, because it clashed with the weekly spelling bee or something.

In secondary school, various religions were covered in a secular way in Social Studies and History. The only time I remember any sort of religious presence at high school was at the beginning of the equivalent to 5th year. Some sort of 'Christian Foundation'(looking back they were probably a evangelical baptist crew) took over a couple of maths classes. We all sat there quietly and patiently, while they tried hard to appear 'cool and hip'. They respected us back, by not attempting to say a prayer or give us any sort of blessing. Life continued as normal once the bell rang.
paolovf
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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by paolovf » Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:49 pm

Announcement by Minister Quinn regarding a €1.5bn school programme.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/bre ... ing13.html

Edit:
Also see RTE article with mixed reactions in the comments:
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0312/education.html#article
mkaobrih
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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by mkaobrih » Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:06 pm

I read somewhere that the church did not seek to be patrons of the new primary schools recently announced (which went to the patrons educate together vec and an foras). So it wasn't as if Ruairi Quinn was actively trying to change the number of religious schools.
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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by mkaobrih » Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:42 am

special report on rte about rule 68
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0315/schools.html
The church complains of persecution when it's not allowed to persecute.
paolovf
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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by paolovf » Thu Mar 22, 2012 4:26 pm

I think it's clear that something needs to be done about 'Rule 68' and it seems there will be resistance from the religious when action is taken. A strong argument on their part always seems to be this idea that religion needs to feature strongly throughout the school due to the 'ethos' it provides. As is stated in Rule 68: "Religious Instruction is, therefore, a fundamental part of the school course, and a religious spirit should inform and vivify the whole work of the school."

Rule 68 goes on to qualify how this is carried out by the teacher: "The teacher should constantly inculcate the practice of charity, justice, truth, purity, patience, temperance, obedience to lawful authority, and all the other moral virtues." To me, this seems like a reasonable 'ethos' and the type of things most parents would teach their kids anyway. Note that it doesn't mention religion and one could arrive at this without consulting religious texts. So why is it so important to brand it a religious ethos?

The objective is to educate children, teach them moral values and prepare them for their adult life, not to brand them.
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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by mkaobrih » Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:40 am

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/ha ... 98031.html
Hand-over of Catholic schools to be revealed

By Niall Murray, Education Correspondent

Wednesday, June 20, 2012

The timescale for the first hand-overs of Catholic schools in areas where parents want more choice will be revealed by Education Minister Ruairi Quinn today.

He is expected to announce details of local surveys in some of the 43 towns and city suburbs already identified as needing greater variety of primary schools.

Details will also emerge of how denominational schools in smaller communities will be expected to cater for children of other faiths, as more than 95% of the country’s 3,300 primary schools remain in the control of religious patrons, including 90% where the Catholic bishop is the patron.

This will most likely involve changes to the law to uphold the rights of pupils at schools with religious patrons if they belong to a different faith, or none. There could also be moves to remove the legal entitlement of schools to give preference to children of their own faith to cover the 20% of schools where demand exceeds available places.

But the more immediate measures will be focused on the hand-over of Catholic school buildings in areas where there is insufficient population growth for new schools to be set up.

The changes come on foot of the report in April by an advisory group to Mr Quinn’s Forum on Patronage and Pluralism in the Primary Sector. Following public sessions last year and submissions from parents groups, religious leaders, school managers, and teacher unions, the group chaired by Prof John Coolahan made a series of major recommendations, including:

* Removal of preparation for sacraments such as First Communion and Confirmation from class-time in Catholic schools;

* Removal of a stipulation in the 1965 primary school rules that religion is the most important subject;

* Development of a new primary curriculum for education regarding religion and beliefs, and also about ethics.

The 47 communities identified in 2010 by the Department of Education as areas where patronage of local Catholic schools might be divested include seven parts of Dublin and a number of large towns in Cork, Galway, Kildare, Meath, Tipperary, Waterford, and Wexford.

Only 15 of the 250-plus primary schools in those areas are multi-denominational and 32 of the communities have no multi-denominational school.

With the assistance of the National Parents Council Primary, the views of families in some areas will be taken in a series of local surveys on patronage.

The support of the Catholic bishops has been key to progressing the initiative, initially lead by Archbishop of Dublin Diarmuid Martin. But the Catholic Schools Partnership representing religious orders and bishops is insisting on proper local consultations before any decisions are made.

The Coolahan report suggested pre-school children’s parents and those of primary pupils be consulted, and that the Department of Education should prioritise areas with the greatest need for new types of schools.

Groups such as multi-denominational schools patron Educate Together are forming local committees with a view to offering their model as the preferred option. But groups representing all-Irish education such as An Foras Pátrúnachta and Gaelscoileanna are also keen to have their schools as a choice for parents.
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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by mkaobrih » Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:18 pm

debate on rte last night with priest, minister, ET rep, and CNS rep.
http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=10058532
The church complains of persecution when it's not allowed to persecute.
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