Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Issues relating to promoting a secular state education and raising children in a non-religious home
Tulip1
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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by Tulip1 » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:23 pm

@Mirthomaniac

the UN already warned Ireland that they had to do something with the education ages ago. The old government just put their head in the sand. The new government might want to show the international community that they mean business and take human rights and the UN serious.

Well I hope this anyway!
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by Mirthomaniac » Sat Mar 12, 2011 6:58 pm

Tulip1 wrote:@Mirthomaniac
Please, call me James 8)
the UN already warned Ireland that they had to do something with the education ages ago. The old government just put their head in the sand. The new government might want to show the international community that they mean business and take human rights and the UN serious.

Well I hope this anyway!
I was aware of the whole UN/Human rights issue as of some months ago. I freely admit that before then I was just happy to complain about the system without actually looking at what people were saying about it and what measures had been taken.

Thing is, I was almost with George Carlin on this whole 'human rights' concept. This video sums it up I think. (about 4 and a half mins in)

Once he gets past his usual observational type stuff, he makes a pretty funny point that also made me think. We don't have rights if they can move to take them away, make any arguments against them like 'majority rules', or otherwise infringe upon them. Unless they are totally inalienable, they're not rights. Just priveliges.

So when the government is told to 'shape up or else', and nothing seems to happen, I can't help but feel disillusioned
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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by MichaelNugent » Sat Mar 12, 2011 8:04 pm

Mirthomaniac wrote:I read that, and it is precisely what I would expect from AI. However, my concerns are really just a vague feeling that everyone tip-toes around this idea. I'm not saying that it has never been said, but I have not heard it said from Quinn or any politicians that the true goal for our society should be a secular education system that protects everyone's rights.

It's all about the current system not reflecting the diversity of our society. Maybe that's the same thing, but I just can't shake the feeling that there is an aversion to secularism in the public and that politicians are careful not to set off those alarm bells. This might be significant, or it might just be political tact. :)
I share these concerns, and our response qualifies our welcome to take this into account:
Atheist Ireland wrote:This has the potential to be the most significant step towards a secular education system ever taken by an Irish Education Minister. However, it is important that the forum vindicates the right of all children to a secular education, and does not leave behind children in geographical areas where there are small numbers of nonreligious people.
We still have a difficult campaign ahead of us to move from greater diversity to secularism, but it is important that we acknowledge this as a major practical step in the right direction.
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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by Mirthomaniac » Sat Mar 12, 2011 9:18 pm

MichaelNugent wrote:
We still have a difficult campaign ahead of us to move from greater diversity to secularism, but it is important that we acknowledge this as a major practical step in the right direction.
I'll agree with that, it's a practical step. I suppose it is unreasonable to expect too much change too fast, especially when we were a de facto theocracy not too long ago.
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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by lostexpectation » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:06 am

http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0311/quinnr.html

don't like this interview, its all up to the church to choose, and the catholic parents.

one still needs to tackle the whole concept of patronage
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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by tony » Fri Mar 18, 2011 6:19 pm

I think Ruairi Quinn is being extremely tactful in his approach to this extremely contentious issue. He is treading very gently and using Diarmuid Martins words to justify his campaign, thus keeping the craw thumpers off his back. Its an interesting situation. The church guards its control of education jealously but they realise that the game is up and they are going to loose a certain amount of control. They should in reality loose full control and in time i think they will. I'd say that's what Ruairi Quinn wants but he cannot kick off the process announcing that. In time this will heat up. I hope the government forces them to hand over schools in compensation for their crimes.Teacher training colleges should be secularised also.I think Ruairi is off to a good start.
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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by ctr » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:43 pm

Agreed

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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by mkaobrih » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:08 pm

Ruairi Quinn orders review of school patronage.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0328/education.html
Minister for Education and Skills Ruairi Quinn has ordered a review of the patronage and management of primary schools.In a statement, the Minister said that the review would be launched formally before Easter.
No date for completion has been announced.Mr Quinn said the review 'will take a multi-dimensional approach involving consultations with the key education stakeholders, including parents'.
An advisory group has been appointed to convene the review forum.
This group will conduct a number of meetings in public and will seek submissions from the public as part of its work.
It is to be chaired by Dr John Coolahan, Professor Emeritus at NUI Maynooth.
The other members of the advisory group are: Dr Caroline Hussey, former Registrar and Deputy President, UCD, and Fionnuala Kilfeather, former chief executive of the National Parents Council - Primary.
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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by Bik » Mon Mar 28, 2011 2:26 pm

The new Minister for Education Ruairí Quinn said he wants to ensure that up to half of the 92% of national schools, run by the Catholic Church, are divested
Looking good.

http://breakingnews.ie/ireland/govt-to- ... 98968.html
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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by canasta42 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:08 pm

Hi, my first post to this site, spurred by an article in this morning's Irish Times ("Forum to examine school patronage" 11.45 am). If you go to "www.education.ie" (the Department's site) to follow this story, you will find:

List of Bodies which will be invited to participate in the Forum

An Foras Pátrúnachta
Catholic Primary Schools Management Association
Church of Ireland Board of Education
Association of Trustees of Catholic Schools
Educate Together
Gaelscoileanna Teoranta
Irish Catholic Bishops Conference
Irish National Teachers Organisation
Irish Primary Principals’ Network
Irish Vocational Education Association
Islamic Foundation of Ireland
National Association of Boards of Management in Special Education
National Parents Council – Primary


None of these bodies appears to represent atheists or humanists. The department, and 'Educate Together', speak of 'multi-denominational' education. I want 'non-denominational' education for my son. Will Atheist Ireland seek representation on the new minister's 'Forum'? Can we at least ask that all religions by thrown out of state-funded schools?
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