Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Issues relating to promoting a secular state education and raising children in a non-religious home
Beebub
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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by Beebub » Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:40 pm

mkaobrih wrote:
Basicilly wrote: Have people opted for the educate together schools or the few non catholic places available in schools or just gone for the christening route for the sake of the child.
I think you'll find parents here in each one of those categories - mine are in educate together.
We did neither. Our kids are not baptised and go to a primary school under patronage of the catholic church. We're fortunate however, to have had a reasonable choice of primary schools in the locality. We put our eldest's name down for the local gaelscoil, which was our first choice and baptism was not a requirement in any way, shape or form. There was a long waiting list, we got our eldest's name down early and so managed to get him a place which made it easier then for siblings, but a baptismal cert was not a requirement, was not asked for and was not one of the criteria which needed to be met to get it. What I mean by that is there is strong demand for this school far outweighing the number of places and none of the criteria is what religion you are.

However, I have heard of areas where there is only one school having preferential treatment in terms of enrollement for catholics and they are supported by the state in this.
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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by Puck » Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:12 pm

Basicilly wrote:Have people opted for the educate together schools or the few non catholic places available in schools or just gone for the christening route for the sake of the child.
Where I live the nearest educate together school is over 40 minutes drive. There is a tiny Church of Ireland school about 15 minutes away, where apparently religion is not taught. But sending our son there really doesn't address the issue with the local school and it could also prevent a Church of Ireland child from attending a school with their own ethos.

My suggestion would be to visit your preferred schools and get in writing what their enrolment policies are. Don't rely on local knowledge.
Basicilly
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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by Basicilly » Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:10 pm

Thanks for all the intersting replies. I'm in the market to buy a house at the moment so until then i won't be sure what the nearest school is. But once thats sorted I'll check with the local school for the enrolement policy and take it from there.
Tulip1
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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by Tulip1 » Tue Feb 28, 2012 9:26 pm

Basicilly wrote:Thanks for all the intersting replies. I'm in the market to buy a house at the moment so until then i won't be sure what the nearest school is. But once thats sorted I'll check with the local school for the enrolement policy and take it from there.
We are relocating to dublin in a years time and we will make sure we live near a school that is not religious. But we have had a very bad experience with a local catholic school that let my 5 year old son recite prayers against our wishes and agreement with the school.
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
yellowfish
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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by yellowfish » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:21 am

Just to restate what many will already know, for many of us the local school is the only realistic choice and in a small community it is important for your child to go to school with the children who will be his neighbors.
All the nearest schools are Church run, the one in the village that our child attends has no realistic opt out opportunity. I do not believe it is done with malice aforethought, but religiouss input goes well beyond the RE and practice for communion, Irish homework is about 50% prayers, Irish schoolwork features many saints. Art is heavy on the lambs and babyJesuss. Every night Homework consists of at least one prayer, the local priest pops in at will, on his last visit he reminded the children to pray in the morning as well as at night, to say thanks for being alive!
The Ash was brought into school as it is every year, should we expect our child to stand out by saying he has to walk around all day without it?

There is no option for any form of secular education, the nearest thing would be an Educate together school with children he would not know outside of school 10 miles from the village, no more walking to school with friends and calling to their houses on the way home.

The Education system needs to be made into one that gives parents more than the option of sticking a big sign on their child saying "DIFFERENT". I am feeling a complete lack of confidence at the moment that anything is going to happen that will make changes for children in communities such as ours.

That being said I am gratefull for the work of those from this site and other places to make change happen, I just think we are going to be fobbed off with a few schools and the issue for the wider community will be pushed back.
Tulip1
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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by Tulip1 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:44 am

yellowfish wrote:Just to restate what many will already know, for many of us the local school is the only realistic choice and in a small community it is important for your child to go to school with the children who will be his neighbors.
All the nearest schools are Church run, the one in the village that our child attends has no realistic opt out opportunity. I do not believe it is done with malice aforethought, but religiouss input goes well beyond the RE and practice for communion, Irish homework is about 50% prayers, Irish schoolwork features many saints. Art is heavy on the lambs and babyJesuss. Every night Homework consists of at least one prayer, the local priest pops in at will, on his last visit he reminded the children to pray in the morning as well as at night, to say thanks for being alive!
The Ash was brought into school as it is every year, should we expect our child to stand out by saying he has to walk around all day without it?

There is no option for any form of secular education, the nearest thing would be an Educate together school with children he would not know outside of school 10 miles from the village, no more walking to school with friends and calling to their houses on the way home.

The Education system needs to be made into one that gives parents more than the option of sticking a big sign on their child saying "DIFFERENT". I am feeling a complete lack of confidence at the moment that anything is going to happen that will make changes for children in communities such as ours.

That being said I am gratefull for the work of those from this site and other places to make change happen, I just think we are going to be fobbed off with a few schools and the issue for the wider community will be pushed back.
The worst I find is that every one thinks it is a majority that wants schools to be like this, yet a research from the Iona Institute showed it was only 49% of the people. When I analysed the results it showed even less people want a catholic education for their children when you took away the 50+ group.

However I have no problem with my child being different as long as there is a certain respect towards him and us as parents. Sadly the catholic church is not the one to respect any of us.
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by Feardorcha » Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:22 pm

I agree with Yellowfish on going to the local school. It is, after all, your school; you pay for it.

I differ on conforming with religious practices so that your child will not be regarded as different. We have reared our kids to recognise that all children are different (In fact being different is something all children have in common.) What of the child who is not white, has a limp, a hairlip; how does that child conform?

We have found that other kids are not in the least concerned with religion - and neither are teachers when it is clearly shown that you mean what you say. In fact, since we first declared that we and our kids don't do religion, several others have also 'come out'. We are no longer all that different.
Tulip1
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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by Tulip1 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 3:10 pm

you will find that a lot. It seems to me that every one is just putting up with it and all it takes is people to stand up. Hibernia College was a prime example, it had probably gone on for years but a few emails and it has changed.
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
yellowfish
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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by yellowfish » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:20 pm

Feardorcha wrote:I agree with Yellowfish on going to the local school. It is, after all, your school; you pay for it.

I differ on conforming with religious practices so that your child will not be regarded as different. We have reared our kids to recognise that all children are different (In fact being different is something all children have in common.) What of the child who is not white, has a limp, a hairlip; how does that child conform?

We have found that other kids are not in the least concerned with religion - and neither are teachers when it is clearly shown that you mean what you say. In fact, since we first declared that we and our kids don't do religion, several others have also 'come out'. We are no longer all that different.
In fairness I think it is safe to say we went about things the wrong way from the start, we should have declared our non belief upon entering the school and tried to put things in place and prepare the ground then, but we are both products of C/E primary schools where religion was a quick prayer about lambs laying down their heads to sleep as we were packing our bags at the end of the day, I went to 9 schools in my time and that was about the maximum religious instruction I received. Neither one of us understood how things would work and we didn't really feel things were going too far until he finished junior and senior infants and entered 1st year, we had some concerns but we did not relise how much things would accelerate.
However it is obviouse that whatever we may have done about RE he would still have received instruction through every other lesson, (Nature trails show Gods work and their is some saint that brings the spring?) our only realistic option is to remove him from his community and go for the educate together school 10 miles away,impossibly impractical for us and I feel a bad choice for him and his friendships within the village.
Perhaps we should push back harder, but we have reached an agreement that he will not do the full communion, I discussed with him the idea that he should not do it at all and use the lesson time for something else, but he was extremely distressed and given that school is his little world that he has to live in we agreed that he could now continue as it will make Little difference to the indoctrination anyway as it is in all lessons. I discuss our views with him when we do religious homework, but the fact is that he is a child and he wants to do what everyone else in class does.
Not proud of our choices and decisions, but we have to live with them, the battle for me is to get this out of schools all together and put an end to the nonsense.
Tulip1
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Re: Ruairi Quinn plans forum on removing Catholic Patronage

Post by Tulip1 » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:57 pm

the battle for me is to get this out of schools all together and put an end to the nonsense.
+1 I think we all agree with that here.
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
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