Atheist Ireland Forum

Hi just wondering if there are any parents who can tell me what it is like to send thier non RC child to RC school. Does the child feel left out? Does the child get treated different by teachers, do parents treat you different. I have had friends tell me to christen child to make my life easier but dont want to do it just to go with the flow, when i have no belief. I have been told my child will resent me for not allowing it to do communion and confemation like the other kids at school. How do other parents deal with this time?
Things are so different here in Ireland, i am from england. There are so many options of different schools there, and even in RC school the child dont all go do there comunnion ect on the same day, its not a part of school. I almost feel trapped in this situation. I love Ireland but starting to worry what on earth i have got myself into moving here.
I just dont know what to do for the best.
ET school not option at mo , its over 20 mile drive away!

We sent our son to the local school who said they would not teach my child the catholic faith. After a while though I found out that they thaught my son how to recite prayers.

My son also came home telling me that god made the flowers. The schools introduce the catholic faith into the curricilum.

Friends of ours who attend a different school got their child from school t find an ash cross on her head while they told the school they didn't want their child to be taught the catholic faith.

The problem is that on the local school you don't have a option to opt your child out unless you supervice your own child when the RE classes are on.

Normally they will sit in the same classroom while the RE is going on. Some schools allow them to do their home work but when your child is young he/she will participating because that is what everybody else does. He or she will therefore not feel left out.

I only have direct experience with young childeren (4-6). Other people here will be able how it goes when communion happens at school.

My child is in senior infants (his 2nd year in primary school) and so far so good. I explained to his teacher last year and this that we're not religious and they said it was no problem. We haven't offiically asked for him to be excluded from religion because he'd have to sit through the class anyway. So far it seems to be on the down low. This year's teacher says he's supposed to do 30 minutes a day of the religious text book but said he only does it about 3 times a week and predominantly gets the kids to do colouring. I suspect he's probably on our side. We haven't face communion yet and don't know how we'll apporach it. He certainly won't be making it, but we don't know yet how much we'll let him get involved.

After a year and a half in primary school he has absolutely no concept of god or religion. He did the nativity play a christmas but even then still has no concept of Jesus or who he was. I ask him occasionally about god and he literally has no clue who or what he is. He doesn't know what a church is or what goes on in a church. Iasked him on holiday last year when we were in a church who stood at the alter; he replied 'The magician?'

So far so good. I suspect my kids school is in the minority. I know of others with kids the same age and they know all about god and jesus and exactly what it's all about. Your best option, if you're concerned about your child's well being and being left out etc. is to see what they school is like, their attitude towards religion and non-religious kids.

I'm sure there are people here who will tell you that you're better off staing your wishes from the outset and officially excluding your child from religious clases from day one, but only you will know what's best for you and your child.

None of my children has been baptised.

I have heard this mentioned before, just wondering what that option really is or is it an empty jesture.

1. Is there a room that the parent and child can goto, or does the parent sit in the class with their child?
2. I assume the parent can't take the child out of the school for that period, also as it has been noted before there is no set time, with religion through out the whole day.
3. Does anyone know of anyone that attends the school with their child for this reason?
4. If a parent supervices their child, are they covered by the schools insurance?

If there were enough opt-out parents who are willing to supervice once a week, would that be a viable option?

I was told that I was welcome to take my child out of the classroom when ever the RE or prayers (these only after an angry letter) went on, they could however not provide me with times. I would have to stand outside the classroom and take him out each time, they didn't tell me that but by failing to provide me with times it would boil down to that.

They make it very difficult for people to do it (at our school). They just hope that you give up when they offer you that since they know it is not really an otion for most people to go back and forward to the school to supervice your child.

A place to sit with my child was never offered, I think they never thought further then just offering just that.

What a bunch of rednecks! Lets call a spade a spade.

Primary school teachers in this country have a lot to answer for.,bunch of pious deluded sheepish mollies.

Doesnt sound like its going to be a easy ride at all. My teacher friend told me to get child christened for a easy life!!!! but i just dont see why i should.
An idea for child coming home saying that god made the flowers...... get him or her to plant some seeds, water them every day and watch them grow! the child would be amazed they have special powers just like god !!!!!!

I don't think that's fair Tony. There are plenty of primary school teachers in a similar situation. If you want to be a primary school teacher in this country you have to toe the line. Similar to parents who decide not to rock the boat with their kids there are teachers who fear for their jobs.

I agree som primary school teachers and school principals have a lot to answer for, but to tar them all with the same brush is not fair and doesn't help the debate.

Brilliant!! Why din't I think of that!!

I think that it just depends on the school how fine or difficult it is. But Beebub is right; in order to be a primary teacher here you have to pretend to be religous.

Its about taking responsibility.If they decide to work in a job which requires them to carry out faith formation then they are part of the problem.A big part in my opinion because they are the ones turning out believers on behalf of their church.

but tony the problem is that you can't be a primary teacher without at least pretending you are a christian since the teacher trainings are only done by the catholic or church of Ireland institutions.

It is something AI has brought to the attention of the UPR and Human rights commite

+1

I'm not someone who would "go along" with anything I didn't believe in, but we live in a time when jobs are becoming scarcer and cuts are being made to education all the time, so I sympathize with the position primary school teachers are in. Especially since so many irreligious people "don't see the harm" in teaching kids religion, why should they risk their jobs by outing themselves as atheists and refusing to teach religion? There would just be a line of genuine Catholics (or people who don't care at all) ready to take over the empty places.

I'd rather have atheists teaching kids religion (they'd probably go for the bare minimum) than sitting at home on the dole while kids are brainwashed by people who really expect them to believe.

I agree with Tony, maybe not every teacher, but on this forum we have seen many cases of teachers/ mainly the principal being purely repressive as if it's their duty to beat christianity into those heathens, or teachers that pass the blame onto higher powers.

Teachers have a trade union, if the majority are less likely to toe the CCL line, then why don't they vote for a change, and support any teacher that is treatend with being fired, by going on strike. (why because fear of the ultra religious, the power of the church, and some principles are not worth taking a stance on)
We have heard cases where trainy teachers can be kicked out of the training school if they're found out to be a non-believer.

Don't forget that in the past some of the crudist and most horried crimes against children in Ireland (I'm not on about the abuse) where caried out by teachers acting on behalf of the church & state, I've heard my father mention punishments that happened to a few of his fellow students that where pure evil. At that time people and teachers when along with 'thats just the way it is, thats the system'

I remember the fear you would have of the priest (who had the power to burn you in hell) paying his weekly visit to the school to talk with the teachers.

There are pious teachers out there who believe they're acting on behalf of their God, not all of them.

Question is, would there be enough teachers who would support action by the union to make a change?

Good question, I think we should push the issue of teachers forward as much as we can. It would be great if we could get a union involved.

AI addressed the teacher issue in a few submissions but maybe we could start a campaign about it?

It would be great if the unions could raise the issue, the issue of homosexual teachers was raised recently. Do bishops and boards of management listen to the teachers unions?Its a serious choice for a teacher to make as outing themselves could result in dismissal.

Primary school teachers in general wouldn't be the most rebellious by nature.To be honest i don't think there are that many non-believers. Teachers know the system they are getting into.Anything that would challenge their acquiescence would be welcome though.

I think we have veered off topic a bit. Definitely would deserve its own thread.