Non RC IN RC school?

Issues relating to promoting a secular state education and raising children in a non-religious home
Tulip1
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Re: Non RC IN RC school?

Post by Tulip1 » Mon May 16, 2011 8:14 am

but tony the problem is that you can't be a primary teacher without at least pretending you are a christian since the teacher trainings are only done by the catholic or church of Ireland institutions.

It is something AI has brought to the attention of the UPR and Human rights commite
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
aiseiri47
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Re: Non RC IN RC school?

Post by aiseiri47 » Mon May 16, 2011 10:14 am

but tony the problem is that you can't be a primary teacher without at least pretending you are a christian since the teacher trainings are only done by the catholic or church of Ireland institutions.
+1

I'm not someone who would "go along" with anything I didn't believe in, but we live in a time when jobs are becoming scarcer and cuts are being made to education all the time, so I sympathize with the position primary school teachers are in. Especially since so many irreligious people "don't see the harm" in teaching kids religion, why should they risk their jobs by outing themselves as atheists and refusing to teach religion? There would just be a line of genuine Catholics (or people who don't care at all) ready to take over the empty places.

I'd rather have atheists teaching kids religion (they'd probably go for the bare minimum) than sitting at home on the dole while kids are brainwashed by people who really expect them to believe.
aZerogodist
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Re: Non RC IN RC school?

Post by aZerogodist » Mon May 16, 2011 11:31 am

tony wrote:What a bunch of rednecks! Lets call a spade a spade.

Primary school teachers in this country have a lot to answer for.,bunch of pious deluded sheepish mollies.
I agree with Tony, maybe not every teacher, but on this forum we have seen many cases of teachers/ mainly the principal being purely repressive as if it's their duty to beat christianity into those heathens, or teachers that pass the blame onto higher powers.

Teachers have a trade union, if the majority are less likely to toe the CCL line, then why don't they vote for a change, and support any teacher that is treatend with being fired, by going on strike. (why because fear of the ultra religious, the power of the church, and some principles are not worth taking a stance on)
We have heard cases where trainy teachers can be kicked out of the training school if they're found out to be a non-believer.

Don't forget that in the past some of the crudist and most horried crimes against children in Ireland (I'm not on about the abuse) where caried out by teachers acting on behalf of the church & state, I've heard my father mention punishments that happened to a few of his fellow students that where pure evil. At that time people and teachers when along with 'thats just the way it is, thats the system'

I remember the fear you would have of the priest (who had the power to burn you in hell) paying his weekly visit to the school to talk with the teachers.

There are pious teachers out there who believe they're acting on behalf of their God, not all of them.

Question is, would there be enough teachers who would support action by the union to make a change?
Tulip1
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Re: Non RC IN RC school?

Post by Tulip1 » Mon May 16, 2011 11:46 am

Question is, would there be enough teachers who would support action by the union to make a change?
Good question, I think we should push the issue of teachers forward as much as we can. It would be great if we could get a union involved.

AI addressed the teacher issue in a few submissions but maybe we could start a campaign about it?
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
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Re: Non RC IN RC school?

Post by tony » Mon May 16, 2011 7:19 pm

It would be great if the unions could raise the issue, the issue of homosexual teachers was raised recently. Do bishops and boards of management listen to the teachers unions?Its a serious choice for a teacher to make as outing themselves could result in dismissal.

Primary school teachers in general wouldn't be the most rebellious by nature.To be honest i don't think there are that many non-believers. Teachers know the system they are getting into.Anything that would challenge their acquiescence would be welcome though.

I think we have veered off topic a bit. Definitely would deserve its own thread.
Tulip1
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Re: Non RC IN RC school?

Post by Tulip1 » Mon May 16, 2011 7:37 pm

think we have veered off topic a bit. Definitely would deserve its own thread
+1
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
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Re: Non RC IN RC school?

Post by aurinko » Wed Jun 01, 2011 12:39 pm

My 3 non-RC children went to RC primary in Ireland. It depends very much on the principal and class teacher of your child if you have a rough ride or not.

The daily prayers are a bit of a problem as the child mainly has to stay in the classroom although not praying. The child want's to join in and not be different. Personally, I gave strict instructions to the teacher that the children should not pray, and fortunately they backed me up. When the kids complained to me, I just said that "you are not RC, so you should not pray". Make sure also to inform the school that your child won't take part in school related celebrations of mass.

Having opted out from religious education for them, with minor problems through the years, in general all went well. Hardest is the 2nd year-communion year-especially for the girls. All their friends get beautiful white dresses etc. Well, we got a beautiful flowery dress and went to the party (but not to the church).

On top of that, religion tends to spill over also into other lessons-singing and english especially. I advise you to keep alert, if your child mentiones singing hymns and reciting prayers, call the school and point it out (without making too much fuss, probably the teacher just did things automatically). If you are consistent but friendly, you should get your own way.

I was very lucky, with a supporting teaching staff (well, one or two exceptions). All children were happy at school and none was converted. Good luck to you!
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Re: Non RC IN RC school?

Post by zenbuffy » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:24 pm

This is a question I've found myself recently asking. A friend of mine has just finished a course to become a secondary school teacher, and while he is an atheist, has felt that he has to keep this quiet, for fear of it impacting on job prospects. It's ludicrous that, in a modern country which is so sensitive about any prejudice, people have to pretend to be RC just to get along, or to avoid being fired. I'd love to see someone take a case to court about losing a job (or not being offered one) on the basis of religion, but of course, that action could take years and be so difficult...

I hope, in the future, to marry and have children. I also hope to not involve the church in any of these things. I don't see why I can't wear a beautiful dress, gather friends and family, and have a small civil ceremony somewhere followed by a massive party, without having to bring the church into it. Likewise, I think it would be a bit hypocritical of me to baptise my children, considering my views on the church, and on baptism in particular. I do worry about difficulties with schooling though - like if my child(ren) can't get into the local school because it's mysteriously full once I can't produce baptism certs.

I hate that so many of these things seem to be "religion by default" - if you want to organise a wedding, or similar, it's so much extra effort to not involve the church. It should be a choice to involve them, with the civil procedure being the default, and the church nonsense being the optional extra.

We're allegedly a secular society - why are there so many hoops to jump through simply to live a life not guided by the church?
Tulip1
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Re: Non RC IN RC school?

Post by Tulip1 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:08 pm

In the IHRC (Irish Human Right commitee) Marks found this:
Came across the following the Irish Human Rights Commission’s Report which puts the (ah sure it doesn’t matter brigade in their place).

“Manifestation of religious beliefs did not arise to a significant degree in the Consultation although some minority parents did complain their children were being taught prayers in denominational schools, (which practice could in any event be regarded as indoctrination).

Therefore reciting prayers is indoctrination and the practice of a religion and it does matter.
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
Tulip1
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Re: Non RC IN RC school?

Post by Tulip1 » Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:12 pm

I told the teacher of my son I didn't want my son to do the prayers. The reaction was: "this is a RC school and I am not discouraging him"

It does depend on the school but a friend of mine who's childeren go to an other school came home with an ash cross on their forehead dispite clear instruction to the school that they didn't want heir childeren to particepate in religion. I think the teacher didn't want to offend the priest. It was how ever no problem to insult the parents.
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
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