Atheist Ireland Forum

Good to hear!!! I am glad!

Hi! I've just registered and feel the need to contribute to this topic. I appreciate Flower's position.

In my experience, god-fearing people, even those who are not particularly religiously committed, feel strongly that babies should be baptised. The important word in that sentence is "fearing". They consider that whatever your own (selfish!) beliefs you should not place your infant in danger by denying the child God's protection. This puts you in a difficult situation. It is important that you do not give in and yet you do not wish to cause a rift in the family which may ultimately impact the child.

What worked for me, in a similar situation was - I calmly explained that I did not believe in god, etc and also that I considered that the child should make its own decision when old enough regarding such matters. I also pointed out that Catholic baptism (not sure if this applies for other religions but I expect it does) rite requires that the parents (if present) and sponsors commit to the Catholic upbringing of the child. Although many people go through the motions, I said I thought that very dis-respectful of God and Church (their beliefs) and I was not prepared to vow to something I had no intention of fulfilling. I also said that if they wished and if it made them feel happier, they could organise and attend the ceremony but that I would not play a part. (as I live some distance from the family members who were pressurising me, this would not have facilitated follow-up indoctrination, but might have the desired effect of neutralising their fear). I didn't have a problem with the idea of the baby being put through the meaningless ceremony. I have not been taken up on this offer and my child is now 9. I have side-stepped Communion by sending her to C-of-I school.

Even though I don't believe what others (religious) believe, I think it's still important to be respectful - we are after all asking that others respect our point of view. I have no opinion on the naming ceremony, but I would be a little suspicious that it's the thin end of some wedge or other.

Anyway good luck with it.

Welcome to the forum EyeBee!

Great first post!

HI EyeBee, Welcome to the forum. I think you hit the nail on the head with your post there!

+1

If I have any more children I will now have the toolkit to navigate my way through the stormy waters of other peoples' religious convictions.

Feckin' nightmare of other peoples' making is the whole problem in the first place!

Hi Flower, I don't have any kids of my own, if I did I'd like to think I'd stand my ground and refuse to baptise them in any shape or form, but in reality that's often easier said than done. Personally I think your compromise seems like a fair one and I wish you the best of luck with it.

With regards to the earlier comments about communion & confirmation, I remember someone (on this forum I think) mentioning that they were bringing their child to Euro Disney instead making their communion and that they were more than happy with the alternative, kids only want to make their communion & confirmation to make a few quid for themselves, if they feel they're benefiting in some way by not making it, they'll be just as happy.

Flower, I think that's a sensible solution. Dont mind the Atheist fundamentalists. You need to find your own way and a way that is as much to the benefit of your child as you can, while maintaining your beliefs. A note of caution though, I am in a somewhat similar situation and I am aware that giving too much ground could also cause alot MORE problems down the line. Gently, gently.

Surely not on here !!! shock horror

What's an atheist fundamentalist?

I think some of the comments regarding Flowers situation were insensitive. Given the strength of religious doctrine in the country for so many years I think it is both unrealistic and unhelpful for atheists to expect people to jettison all that baggage easily. People may very well reject religion intellectually but struggle emotionally. Absolutist (or fundamentalist) positions are for me not very productive. I worry about the coldness at the heart of some of the debates.

I tend to agree with you Wexfordhobbit. I think some of the comments on this thread were a little unfair.

So an Atheist fundamentalist is one who is insensitive.

Brendan Behan (I'm almost sure) coined the phrase "daylight atheist".
I wonder did he come across the "don't tell me Ma/family/priest/wife atheist" or the "I'll say one thing and do another atheist."

Personally, I treat all people on-line as competent adults. To do otherwise would make me a patronising atheist, a two-faced atheist or just a hypocrite.

I just wanted to point out that the decision that me and my boyfriend have made to not bring up out child RC took months of debating. Not between me and the inlaws but between me and by Fella. For he wanted to christen baby RC just to keep family happy, it took me a long time to bring him to my way of thinking. Even though he doesnt believe in RC , he does believe in some sort of God. So you see if it was up to me I wouldnt even have to think of any sort of christening if i was living home in England. No one would ask me!!!!
But here its almost the done thing , no question IF i am christening child, just members of my fellas family and freinds asking when it is, the thought never even entered their heads we might not be!!!
We decided on a non religious ceremony now, and thats between me and my boyfriend. He is hoping that for his family it will be ok at least we did something. He is terriffied of telling his parents the news i can can tell you!!!!!!!!
As for some of the comments that a certain person wrote, yes everyone has a right to thier opinion, but the person must have known they were hurtful and upsetting,but water under the bridge now i hope?????
I thought alot the last week and questioned myself why i am so worried about this situation. Its not so much that i will be upsetting them, its what will be said to me to hurt me i am worried about. To give an example at christmas when we annouced I was pregnant, his dad asked me what did you go and do that for? Because we weren't married yet, and called my baby a consalation prize. I was so hurt , that every time i am round him now i am almost waiting for the next thing he will say!!
I know i have to stick up for myself and my beliefs more and that is what i am doing and will do more in the future.

I tell you now if some one had said to my missus he would be eating his next meal in hospital -father in law or not ! what a nasty little Runt!.

Also I would be fu**king delighted to not baptize the child knowing how annoyed they would be ! I see no reason why you should spare that guys feelings after that remark !!

Any way -- glad you feeling better now

Flower I would not care about a thing that bastard says to you! How dare he! That is his grand child he is talking about. I am just angry for you here now. I stop writing because only a lot of swearing will come out.