Breaking the laws of physics!!!

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robdonn
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Breaking the laws of physics!!!

Post by robdonn » Thu Mar 26, 2009 3:13 am

www.steorn.com

I remember checking these guys out when they made their first announcement about 2 or 3 years ago. I was always curious about what they had, whether it did what they thought it did or if it was just a mistake somewhere. Apparently they're now certain enough to license the technology so who knows? As an Audio Visual Engineer in training, I'm applying for a non-commercial license out of curiosity.
I'm fucking Matt Damon!!
CatHerder
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Re: Breaking the laws of physics!!!

Post by CatHerder » Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:47 pm

robdonn wrote:http://www.steorn.com

I remember checking these guys out when they made their first announcement about 2 or 3 years ago. I was always curious about what they had, whether it did what they thought it did or if it was just a mistake somewhere.
Same here. I thought this video on youtube demonstrated something in a simple way. But then again it could have been edited to do so. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0KHZ53g678
Ygern
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Re: Breaking the laws of physics!!!

Post by Ygern » Thu Mar 26, 2009 9:44 pm

Just don't go writing them any cheques yet.

I'd be very sceptical of this company's claim. Clean & limitless energy has been a Holy Grail of Physics and Science for many decades. And somewhat like the Holy Grail, anyone claiming to have discovered it tends to show themselves under rigorous scrutiny to be holding the science equivalent of a suspiciously mundane beaker bearing the recent hasty scribing "Thee Grayle" on its side.
It's not to say that an outrageous claim is automatically wrong - it's just that an extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence. And so far their track-record is dubious. Not only did their 2006 & 2007 demos fail to produce, but if you dig a little further back into this company's recent history you will discover that back in the dot.com boom & bust days, Steorn was an e-commerce company that like so many others failed. Back in the day, it (in the company's own words) was a "specialist service company providing programme management and technical assessment advice for European companies engaging in e-commerce projects".

Unfortunately the modus operandi and claims bear all the hallmarks of this crowd being scam-artists of the multi-million dollar scale.
The hallmarks in this case are:
* an extraordinary claim
* zero proof of claim
* lame excuses for lack of proof ( I believe that the last failed demo was blamed on a greenhouse effect in a box. Honest.)
* claims of heresy- they insinuate they are right because mainstream scientists are laughing at them

Google's search engine yields a surprising number of sceptical-to-scathing hits when searching for the seemingly innocuous pairing of Ireland & Steorn

Here are some articles on the subject of clean & limitless energy:

Can Engineers Achieve the Holy Grail of Energy: Infinite and Clean?
All they need to do is tame 200-million-degree plasma—without using too much energy - by Charles Seife

A tentative new hope by by Eliza Strickland

Real scientists would love infinite, clean energy to be true - as would billions of other humans. But it seems unlikely that two business-men have succeeded where the entire globe's physicists have failed. Not impossible. But I think this might be a case of another of those invisible pink unicorns.
The universe is huge and old, and rare things happen all the time ~ Lawrence Krauss
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bipedalhumanoid
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Re: Breaking the laws of physics!!!

Post by bipedalhumanoid » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:37 pm

There isn't anything original about Steorn. There are companies all over the world making these kinds of claims and taking money from investors.


This lot seem to believe their claims even though they have been debunked by Australian Skeptics: www.lutec.com.au/

They're looking for investors too. It doesn't have to be a scam... just a bunch of engineers trying to be physicists and misinterpreting their results... then getting in over their heads.
"The fact of your own existence is the most astonishing fact you will ever have to face. Don’t you ever get used to it." - Richard Dawkins... being shrill and offensive again I suppose.
Ygern
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Re: Breaking the laws of physics!!!

Post by Ygern » Thu Mar 26, 2009 10:41 pm

bipedalhumanoid wrote:
It doesn't have to be a scam... just a bunch of engineers trying to be physicists and misinterpreting their results... then getting in over their heads.
Yeah, that's very true.

Although, seemingly only they have the right tools to measure and test their discovery... wanton naiveté on their part?
The universe is huge and old, and rare things happen all the time ~ Lawrence Krauss
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Re: Breaking the laws of physics!!!

Post by bipedalhumanoid » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:29 am

This is interesting...
http://www.lutec.com.au/video/Lutec_0710.wmv

They have to input energy into the thing. They claim they have to put 20% of the energy into the thing which is then amplified... so why can't they jump start one and then use some of the output energy so it can power itself and produce an infinite amount of energy (as opposed to the 200-400% efficiency they claim)?

This wreaks of mis-measurement.
"The fact of your own existence is the most astonishing fact you will ever have to face. Don’t you ever get used to it." - Richard Dawkins... being shrill and offensive again I suppose.
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Re: Breaking the laws of physics!!!

Post by aZerogodist » Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:06 am

From the info on the site and then wiki... not sure what they are on about using "Noether's theorem" from the looks, it's just the conservation of energy. The "Counter-electromotive force" just states that it could be possible to create a 100% efficient motor, as your removing the back friction, clearly the statement of conserving the energy within laws of physics, by reducing energy losses seems ok, but the way it's put across as if energy for nothing. Like saying a motor is running x00% faster doesn't mention the all important power performance, (a steam-engine can be slow but is 2/3 times more efficient than a petrol-engine) as it all comes down to work at the end of the day. There’s no mention of thermodynamics which is the core of efficiency.

ZeroF: Passive Magnetic bearings, just sounds like Zero-Friction.
The statement "Orbo technology represents a revolution for energy production and use." well a more efficient motor would be beneficial of course, not sure on viva la revolution, "It offers a convenient, clean and constant supply of energy at the point of use".
not sure what they mean by constant supply of energy, it sounds like baloney.

Now the Perepiteia sounds more plausible :wink: 7000% efficiency.
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Re: Breaking the laws of physics!!!

Post by marklen » Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:05 pm

Just on the basis of what they say on the website (and leaving cert physics) this is very obvious bullshit.
peter63
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Re: Breaking the laws of physics!!!

Post by peter63 » Sat Mar 28, 2009 7:54 am

Robert L. Park analyzes similar claims of infinite free energy in his excellent book "Voodoo Science, The Road from Foolishness to Fraud" (if anybody is interested).

Welcome back Bip!
“God and Country are an unbeatable team; they break all records for oppression and bloodshed” Luis Buñuel. Quoted in The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins.
marklen
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Re: Breaking the laws of physics!!!

Post by marklen » Sat Mar 28, 2009 12:29 pm

Using voodoo science(*) I built a machine in my basement.

It has three parts:
1. A complex and mysterious arrangement of pulleys and cat guts that feed apples into a box
2. A specially constructed black box (coated in chicken blood) which is completely obscure to the outside
3. A complex and mysterious arrangement of pulleys and cat guts that extract apples from the box

I have have found that by improving the apple extraction mechanism and changing the ratio of chicken blood I can gradually increase the rate of apple extraction. For every €1000 I spend on cat guts the efficiency increases by 1%. Already I have had positive results, there are times, after an initial warm up period, when the rate of apples coming out exceeds the rate of apples going in by several percentage points. If only I had some investment I could increases the efficiency of the extraction mechanism until it is greater than 100% for extended periods of time.

Rather than closing your minds to this possibility I think you all should send me money. Soon I will solve world hunger! (though not me myself but rather food distributors who will take my invention and actually make it work, paying me a nominal fee for my genius)

That is if the vested interests - the apple growers - don't get to me first!
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