Incest

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lughlamhfada
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Re: Incest

Post by lughlamhfada » Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:25 pm

munsterdevil wrote:@ DEV

The thread deserved a new home as once again a thread was started by Rev. to attack Islam, and thankfully we moved on from that.
What about the Greeks? Well I know the Spartans encouraged homosexuality, but I do not know about the Greeks as regards incest.
Here's some of the evolutionary stuff on homosexuality:
Homosexual behavior is common in many animal species. As to whether this behavior has evolved to perform some kind of useful social function, like strengthening social bonds between members of the same sex, or whether animals do it simply because it presents another opportunity to do something they enjoy, is open to speculation.

Some evolutionary scientists say that human homosexuality may have evolved because of the benefits of having additional non-reproductive members contributing to the needs of the wider community. They say that as long as enough people continue to breed then there would be very little evolutionary pressure against homosexuality.

Others say that the flexibility of the human brain and the wide range of reactions to early childhood experiences will naturally result in a wide diversity of adult sexual behaviors. They say that homosexuality is common because it unites a diverse minority of people, giving them an opportunity to fulfil their physical and emotional needs, in the same way that the diverse majority of straight people are united by their heterosexuality. From this point of view, the commonality of homosexuality would be largely cultural.
lughlamhfada
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Re: Wonderfull Islam

Post by lughlamhfada » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:01 pm

mkaobrih wrote:As a thought experiment - what is wrong with consensual incest – if contraception is used? Where does the ickyeness factor come from?
Interesting point.
I only see it being an affront to a healthy familial relationship. If pregnancy isn't possible either through infertility or as chemicals said if it was gay sex I don't think a law against it would make sense.

]We don't make laws on what disgusts us or at least we shouldn't. It's better that we leave society to stigmatize such behavior as a preventative measure.
It's those thing which we find sufficiently repellent that we make preventive laws against. The legal 'thou shalt nots' (torture, rape, murder, theft) are based on ethical thou shalt nots
I'd also like to bring up the point that if we accept that incest is associated with very high risk of genetic disorders in the children and this should be banned. Then does this mean people who will pass on genetic disorders to their children i.e. sickle cell anemia and hemophilia shouldn't be allowed have children either?
Banning anybody from having kids isn't the way to go.
Would the real rationale for either be reducing suffering or lessening the burden on society, or maybe even more basic, that we find health attractive and sickness unattractive?... the stuff of dystopian sci-fi.

There are of course valid questions to be asked against what we agree on collectively about balancing private gamble against public good... and who pays if things go wrong... (maybe that needs its own thread too :wink: ). While most of us probably think Seanie Fitz should pay his own gambling debts, should people who flagrantly gamble with their own health for example be given the same consideration when it comes to medical care [an alcoholic get a liver transplant, or a smoker a lung transplant, or someone morbidly obese a heart when both organs and beds are limited?]

One other point I need to highlight is that marriage doesn't mean sex. While it is a big part of the vast majority of marriages for whatever reason there may be some married couples who don't have sex. By banning marriage between two cousins should we be really saying you can be married and have sex, you just can't have children?
Possibly much of what we consider normative, and which has been enshrined in law as such is based on the legacy of what religion considered normative. Given that women under much patriarchy are considered property and marriage is about ensuring the man isn't cuckolded, 'legitimate' transfer of property and legacy etc...
I'm starting to think there are some complexities involved and this a grey area.

I suppose we already accept that family is important biologically and socially and this has many legal recognitions. Including allowing next of kin to inherit assets and other special legal privileges. Perhaps such restrictions are a natural balance to the privileges associated with family.

Finding the balance between individual rights and respecting family as an institution (every individual has family in some way) is tricky.
mod edit fixed quotes
Rev j.jones
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Re: Wonderfull Islam

Post by Rev j.jones » Mon May 03, 2010 6:59 pm

munster what the frick is your post about is it in the wrong thread
"The Meek a'int gonna inherit shit"
"I've got a hell of a lot of weapons to fight! I got my claws, I got cutlasses, I got guns, I got dynamite, I got a hell of a lot of fight! I will fight!" Rev Jones cured religion for 950 americans.
Dev
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Re: Wonderfull Islam

Post by Dev » Mon May 03, 2010 10:09 pm

Rev j.jones wrote:munster what the frick is your post about is it in the wrong thread
It actually isn't, this thread went from the topic of "Cultural Rural Pakistani Incest in England" to "Incest" subsequently the discussion was split by the mods - the new thread title was titled "Incest". It can be searched and found on the forum. Mkaobrih moved all the relevant posts to this new thread. The discussion progressed and the conclusions were that we couldn't find anything wrong with the practice that it should have legal restrictions placed on it. We don't condone it, we just can't justify banning it.

Hence why the discussion didn't continue further here. It is up to the mentioned Pakistani individuals themselves to stop doing it.

Munsters comment was in reference to one of those posts in the moved discussion and now it seems out of place. Just ignore it.
mkaobrih
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Re: Wonderfull Islam

Post by mkaobrih » Tue May 04, 2010 3:57 am

Thanks for the summary Dev. :)
The church complains of persecution when it's not allowed to persecute.
Rev j.jones
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Re: Wonderfull Islam

Post by Rev j.jones » Tue May 04, 2010 2:05 pm

so let me get this right, there was a discussion that concluded that theres nothing wrong with having sex with your relations. is that it? tell me it so pls
"The Meek a'int gonna inherit shit"
"I've got a hell of a lot of weapons to fight! I got my claws, I got cutlasses, I got guns, I got dynamite, I got a hell of a lot of fight! I will fight!" Rev Jones cured religion for 950 americans.
mkaobrih
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Re: Wonderfull Islam

Post by mkaobrih » Tue May 04, 2010 2:26 pm

Rev j.jones wrote:so let me get this right, there was a discussion that concluded that theres nothing wrong with having sex with your relations. is that it? tell me it so pls
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=3459
The church complains of persecution when it's not allowed to persecute.
Ygern
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Re: Incest

Post by Ygern » Tue May 04, 2010 11:56 pm

A interesting article just popped up over on Discover Blogs:

Darwin’s Family May Have Paid a Price for Inbreeding
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80bea ... nbreeding/

It pretty much reiterates what we had already covered; that it increases the risk of recessive diseases from showing up in offspring.

The other article over there relevant to this discussion is this one:

Cousin Marriages May Be Taboo, but They’re Not Genetic Disasters
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80bea ... disasters/

Although the articles seem to contradict each other, in fact they are making a distinction - you can get away with it as long as your greater extended family doesn't make a habit of it over generations.
The universe is huge and old, and rare things happen all the time ~ Lawrence Krauss
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Rev j.jones
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Incest

Post by Rev j.jones » Sun May 09, 2010 2:35 am

does anyone know if the yanks now own aljazera?

This is from asia times:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/JB16Df01.html
"The Meek a'int gonna inherit shit"
"I've got a hell of a lot of weapons to fight! I got my claws, I got cutlasses, I got guns, I got dynamite, I got a hell of a lot of fight! I will fight!" Rev Jones cured religion for 950 americans.
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