Indian court rules astrology is a science

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Tulip1
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Re: Indian court rules astrology is a science

Post by Tulip1 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:38 pm

Exacte wetenschap of niet exacte wetenschap. Ahh is that maybe the correct term Exact science and non exact science?
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Re: Indian court rules astrology is a science

Post by Ygern » Sun Feb 06, 2011 7:01 pm

Ah yes! The term "an exact science" is still used in English, although for some reason it is regarded somewhat old-fashioned word and has somewhat fallen out of use, or at least tends to be used very loosely and not really in its original sense. It's opposite "inexact science" isn't used at all that I am aware of.

I suppose a good way of describing a field of research where there is still very little evidence or small chance of testing would be to say it is "largely hypothetical / theoretical" field. Or in the case of astrology: complete and utter bollocks.
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Re: Indian court rules astrology is a science

Post by Ciaran » Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:24 pm

Michael Shermer in The Borderlands of Science (I think) used the term "proto-science" for fields like psychology. I quite like the term as its not dismissive but lets you know its only on it's way to being "true" science, whatever that means or becoming psuedoscience if it doesn't make the grade. Eugenie Scott (again, I think but the point stands) who said there are areas she can't even discuss with her German colleagues as their definition of science is so different.
Tulip1
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Re: Indian court rules astrology is a science

Post by Tulip1 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:29 pm

so basically in the english laguage you have science and exact science? LOL the one science is just a bit more exact than the other?

That astrology is bollox we already knew in the Netherlands!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: we would not even class that under pseudo science but just as staight bullshit!

Great video'sthough!
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
Tulip1
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Re: Indian court rules astrology is a science

Post by Tulip1 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:33 pm

Ciaran wrote:Michael Shermer in The Borderlands of Science (I think) used the term "proto-science" for fields like psychology. I quite like the term as its not dismissive but lets you know its only on it's way to being "true" science, whatever that means or becoming psuedoscience if it doesn't make the grade. Eugenie Scott (again, I think but the point stands) who said there are areas she can't even discuss with her German colleagues as their definition of science is so different.
That is a good term indeed, because basically every subject we call sceince has evolved into the science we know now. When we say exact or in exact science it is also just to differenciate between things we can proof scientifically and the science we can't (yet) but which is based upon scientific research and developed using scientific methodes. It is by no means dismissive.

I see where Eugenie Scott is coming from, I think it has a lot to do with how we translate though. Because I used the pseudo science instead of the inexact science and see now how that is completely not what I ment to say.
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Re: Indian court rules astrology is a science

Post by Ygern » Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:11 pm

Well if you translate "wetenschap" - and my Dutch is not great - but that is roughly "knowledge-craft" (is that roughly accurate, Tulip?). That is a fairly dense word that conveys a great deal more than the word "science" if only because most people don't speak Latin & therefore don't know that this word also roughly translates as "knowing". In either form science = something that is known. Provable fact is therefore implied.

The problem is that in English "anything I can think of" is now imagined to be equivalent to knowledge / knowing; which is why people who have immersed themselves in any sort of important-sounding nonsense think that they too have knowledge without understanding that unless it has stood the test of the scientific method it is not knowledge, but simply an idea.
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Dev
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Re: Indian court rules astrology is a science

Post by Dev » Sun Feb 06, 2011 9:27 pm

I would consider a pseudo-science a field where one of it's basic axioms or assumptions has the consensus of being refuted or highlighted to be unfalsifiable by the scientific community.

I quite like the suggested word "proto-science" too. There are lot of misconceptions about science particularly so when the diversity of scientific disciplines broadens and expands. It works the other way too as well - some people think Computer Science is a Mickey Mouse science for example.
Tulip1
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Re: Indian court rules astrology is a science

Post by Tulip1 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:22 pm

Yeah I think we have a better distinguish in our language between the types of science I think. It might just be that I can't find the right words for translation. We would not class computers under science, well depends software wouldn't be but developing new computer systems would be, I think.

Well I am not entirely sure because it would fall under technoligy science I suppose. We have specialliced technical uni's. http://www.tudelft.nl/

This is an other thing we can't translate when you do get you technical uni degree you are a ingieur and you get Ir it would translate as engineer but that is not really the same. We also have completely different titles we have first Dr. and a bit higher is Drs. then hoog leraar and then proffesor.

Buth then you can't be a Dr in certain subjects. Haha it's even confusing for me!
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
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Re: Indian court rules astrology is a science

Post by Dev » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:04 pm

The first thing about computer science that must be understood is that it has nothing to do with the use of computers as you're familiar with them. Computers are the tool used to study the phenomena in question and not the object of study. Indeed most taught courses for good reasons have some overlap with engineering and maths because graduates are better suited for jobs but that isn't the domain of computer science.

One the most prolific contributors to computer science, Dijkstra, said "Computer science is no more about computers than astronomy is about telescopes". It's best to think of it as a branch of mathematics which I believe is an exact science that adheres to the scientific method.
Tulip1
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Re: Indian court rules astrology is a science

Post by Tulip1 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:49 pm

and the name Dijkstra is very Dutch so he must be right :wink:

nice thread this, never realised that a simple term like science is more complex then you at first glance would think!
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
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