A scientific dissent from Darwinism

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Wened
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A scientific dissent from Darwinism

Post by Wened » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:48 pm

Just today i got a link from a creationist friend of mine who i debated some time ago on the topic of evolution.

http://www.discovery.org/scripts/viewDB ... oad&id=660

Basically it is a list of ppl with PHD supporting ID. Im sure i heard about this one in some documentary about Dover trial.

In response i had sent him a link from wikipedia. It is about similar list made by scientists supporting evolution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Scientif ... _Darwinism

I also pointed out to him that science is not a popularity contest. And no number of supporters will prove ID to be true unless they present any evidence FOR ID. And that there is no point to present evidence AGAINST Darwinism since disproving evolution does not prove ID to be true by default.

I heard somewhere that some people on this list do not exist or were placed there without their consent.
Did anyone here heard about that?
"They can keep their heaven. When I die, I’d sooner go to middle Earth." - George RR Martin
Darwin
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Re: A scientific dissent from Darvinism

Post by Darwin » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:57 pm

If you engage with this argument you're suggesting that darwinism and creationism are some kind of competing theories with 'believers' and evidence on each side and as a scientist its just a matter of picking your side. This is totally untrue of course - creationism isn't a theory its a belief and part of their argument will be to merge those two together.

I don't need to read that list; I've been a scientist for 15 years (genetics) and I've yet to come accross another who believes in creationism and few enough who believe in God.
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Re: A scientific dissent from Darwinism

Post by funkyderek » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:28 pm

See Project Steve: http://ncse.com/taking-action/project-steve

It's a list of scientists who do believe in evolution and are called Steve. It's longer than the creationist list (which includes non-Steves).
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Wened
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Re: A scientific dissent from Darwinism

Post by Wened » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:29 pm

Yes. I should point out that ID is not a scientific theory.

You use Darwin as a nick! Why would an Atheist nickname himself after a devote catholic :)
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Wened
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Re: A scientific dissent from Darwinism

Post by Wened » Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:31 pm

funkyderek wrote:See Project Steve: http://ncse.com/taking-action/project-steve

It's a list of scientists who do believe in evolution and are called Steve. It's longer than the creationist list (which includes non-Steves).
Yes i saw that too on wikipedia. But posting too much stuff as a rebuttal felt like being a dick :)
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Darwin
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Re: A scientific dissent from Darwinism

Post by Darwin » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:18 pm

Wened wrote: You use Darwin as a nick! Why would an Atheist nickname himself after a devote catholic :)
Firstly: herself

Secondly: Darwin was baptised Anglican

Thirdly: He renounced religous belief towards the end of his life
From his 1876 autobiography:

“Formerly I was led... to the firm conviction of the existence of God and the immortality of the soul. In my Journal I wrote that whilst standing in the midst of the grandeur of a Brazilian forest, 'it is not possible to give an adequate idea of the higher feelings of wonder, admiration, and devotion, which fill and elevate the mind.' I well remember my conviction that there is more in man than the mere breath of his body. But now the grandest scenes would not cause any such convictions and feelings to rise in my mind.”
Wened
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Re: A scientific dissent from Darwinism

Post by Wened » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:22 pm

Darwin wrote:
Wened wrote: You use Darwin as a nick! Why would an Atheist nickname himself after a devote catholic :)
Firstly: herself

Secondly: Darwin was baptised Anglican

Thirdly: He renounced religous belief towards the end of his life
From his 1876 autobiography:

“Formerly I was led... to the firm conviction of the existence of God and the immortality of the soul. In my Journal I wrote that whilst standing in the midst of the grandeur of a Brazilian forest, 'it is not possible to give an adequate idea of the higher feelings of wonder, admiration, and devotion, which fill and elevate the mind.' I well remember my conviction that there is more in man than the mere breath of his body. But now the grandest scenes would not cause any such convictions and feelings to rise in my mind.”
First: Im sorry my lady if i caused you any offense :)

Secondly and thirdly: Wow i had no idea. I do not remember where i heard about his catholicism but apparently i was deceived.

Thank you. Now i stand corrected!
"They can keep their heaven. When I die, I’d sooner go to middle Earth." - George RR Martin
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Re: A scientific dissent from Darwinism

Post by Darwin » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:24 pm

Wened wrote:
Darwin wrote:
Wened wrote: You use Darwin as a nick! Why would an Atheist nickname himself after a devote catholic :)
Firstly: herself

Secondly: Darwin was baptised Anglican

Thirdly: He renounced religous belief towards the end of his life
From his 1876 autobiography:

“Formerly I was led... to the firm conviction of the existence of God and the immortality of the soul. In my Journal I wrote that whilst standing in the midst of the grandeur of a Brazilian forest, 'it is not possible to give an adequate idea of the higher feelings of wonder, admiration, and devotion, which fill and elevate the mind.' I well remember my conviction that there is more in man than the mere breath of his body. But now the grandest scenes would not cause any such convictions and feelings to rise in my mind.”
First: Im sorry my lady if i caused you any offense :)

Secondly and thirdly: Wow i had no idea. I do not remember where i heard about his catholicism but apparently i was deceived.

Thank you. Now i stand corrected!
You're forgiven my child - now, go away and sin no more :lol:
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Re: A scientific dissent from Darwinism

Post by Ygern » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:25 pm

That list is notorious for being dishonestly put together, there are people on that list who have stated that they do not support the Discovery Institute and were misled about what they were signing. It also has people who are not professionally qualified to be signing as a "scientist" in the first place.

It's what people have come to expect from the Discovery Institute though, honesty and truth are less important than getting their political agenda out.

This video covers the famous Dover trial Intelligent Design on Trial
It is quite funny to watch in places, the anti-evolution team just lied and cheated all the way through, and then when the Republican judge decided against them, good Christians took it upon themselves to issue the judge with death threats and tried very hard to smear his name.

I prefer this talk by Eugenie Scott as it covers the Dover trial from the preparation of the science they presented as evidence as well as the sneaky tactics used by the Creationist/ID side.

After that, you might be interested in this talk by Matthew Chapman, he also covered the Dover trial, with a slightly different angle: he is the great-great grandson of Darwin.

Also: Barbara Forrest Inside Creationism's Trojan Horse

The important thing about the Dover case is that the evidence presented showed a few things:
- Creationism & Intelligent Design are the same thing
- the Discovery Institute has no problem publishing known lies
- there is no actual theory on the Creationist / ID side; just a whole lot of criticism of a theory they don't like
- the Creationist / ID movement has a religious & political agenda
- the Discovery Institute keeps changing its tactics to try to get past the First Amendment that prohibits religion being taught in the classroom
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Re: A scientific dissent from Darwinism

Post by chemicals » Wed Mar 16, 2011 4:44 pm

Wened wrote:Basically it is a list of ppl with PHD supporting ID. Im sure i heard about this one in some documentary about Dover trial.
this guy does a great job on debunking that dodgy list
:D
http://www.youtube.com/user/DonExodus2# ... y1Bo6GmPqM
والقس هو مجنون
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