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Re: The lapsed atheist - the confessional thread

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:53 pm
by Feardorcha
Would it be worth a try to say to your Ma something like: "I am coming to the conclusion that religion just isn't making sense" and see if she will she have a reasonable conversation.

Many years ago I did this and there followed many happy years of debate, though the Ma often said I was going to hell etc and that I had her heart scalded etc. She came to all my non-religious life-marking events and I think she was a little proud of my rebelliousness in the end.

If you raise the subject, you can just test the water and see where the breaking point is and then you might be in a better position to see if you want to go ahead or not.
With small kids, a good granny is hard to find.

Re: The lapsed atheist - the confessional thread

Posted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:40 pm
by aZerogodist
Dr.R
I really don't know what to say...tom

Re: The lapsed atheist - the confessional thread

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:04 am
by robreynolds2
Personally I would try to avoid discussing religion altogether. If you start about religion you will inevitably lose "as you are wrong and evil". If the discussion/argument comes up it is better that it is about privacy and a persons right to their opinion rather than the existence of a god and/or how to raise children.

In this way if someone gets upset and tries to argue, your defense is that your privacy is being violated and you are being disrespected which in this case is a hell of a lot easier to discuss than trying to "prove" that there is no god.

As the good Doctor has pointed out, it would break his mothers heart to hear the "no god" argument and it is not worth rowing over this. This lady will not be giving up the church under any circumstances so its best (in my humble opinion) to take the easiest way out for all.

There is nothing wrong with turning this into a privacy argument, nobody has a right to tell you how to live your life or how to raise your kids no matter how kind their intentions of who they are (I am sure the mother in question has the best of intentions - and is a good person).

One other thing Dr Raskolnikov, the time may be approaching when this comes to a head. You will most likely react very poorly once the pressure to indoctrinate your kids really commences (think of how bad you felt form doing the reading....and that was you......not your kids).

(I have just read what I wrote and I realise it is really preachy again but I am too tired to retype. I don't know what is happening to me this week, perhaps it has something to do with Talk like a Pirate Day yesterday FSM BE PRAISED!!!! RAmen!!)

Re: The lapsed atheist - the confessional thread

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:21 am
by Dr Raskolnikov
aZerogodist wrote:Dr.R
I really don't know what to say...tom
Thanks aZerogodist, and by the way re your previous post I absolutely got that you were "pulling my leg"! :)

Re: The lapsed atheist - the confessional thread

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 9:39 am
by Dr Raskolnikov
Rob R,

Taking feardorcha's observations into account, I think what you've said is closest to the reality of how things are likely to play out (sorry fd, I think a reasoned discussion is very unlikely - I've tried this with her faith in homeopathy and that didn't come out too well, but at least from her perspective all it means is I'm a Big Pharma shill rather than a paganistic terror from the pit! :evil: ).

I had this discussion with my wife (an almost lifelong atheist who worked it out for herself aged 8 - even her grandmother is an atheist which is pretty unusual). She obviously has a big stake in this because it's her child in the middle of this as well. We came to the conclusion, against her initial instincts, that a policy of topic avoidance is the best course of action. The reasoning is that once the full extent of our heathenism is out in the open, we may lose a whole branch of the family. Isn't it better that we hang on to them for as long as possible before the sword of Damocles falls?

On the other hand, it is not a perfect policy because it must eventually come to a head, and in the meantime my wife won't allow my parents to be alone with our son in case my mother tries to indoctrinate him. Which is a real shame because both my parents are lovely people in every other respect and they are very fond of their grandson.

However I can't say I blame my wife, cf. the religious pamphlet she handed us recently which firmly and explicitly states "It is of the utmost importance to indoctrinate your children as early as possible, and it is the mother's key role, for what more love can a mother show her child than to share the true and everlasting love of Almighty God. Children who are not indoctrinated before the age of five may never know the love of God as it is most efficacious to inculcate them in their innocence. Suffer the little children...".

The explicitness and boldness of it still astonishes me! :(

Re: The lapsed atheist - the confessional thread

Posted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:17 pm
by Tulip1
Dr Raskolnikov wrote:However I can't say I blame my wife, cf. the religious pamphlet she handed us recently which firmly and explicitly states "It is of the utmost importance to indoctrinate your children as early as possible, and it is the mother's key role, for what more love can a mother show her child than to share the true and everlasting love of Almighty God. Children who are not indoctrinated before the age of five may never know the love of God as it is most efficacious to inculcate them in their innocence. Suffer the little children...".

The explicitness and boldness of it still astonishes me! :(
I would really like to have a copy of that pamphlet. Is there anyway you van get me a copy over email or tell me where I can get it online?

Re: The lapsed atheist - the confessional thread

Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 12:30 am
by Dr Raskolnikov
Tulip1 wrote:
Dr Raskolnikov wrote:However I can't say I blame my wife, cf. the religious pamphlet she handed us recently which firmly and explicitly states "It is of the utmost importance to indoctrinate your children as early as possible, and it is the mother's key role, for what more love can a mother show her child than to share the true and everlasting love of Almighty God. Children who are not indoctrinated before the age of five may never know the love of God as it is most efficacious to inculcate them in their innocence. Suffer the little children...".

The explicitness and boldness of it still astonishes me! :(
I would really like to have a copy of that pamphlet. Is there anyway you van get me a copy over email or tell me where I can get it online?
Happy to share! :D

I couldn't find it online though, but I'll see if I can scan it in and email it.

Re: The lapsed atheist - the confessional thread

Posted: Wed Oct 05, 2011 9:24 pm
by aiseiri47
I defended Catholicism (it was pure pedantry, I assure you) and Dr Raskolnikov ordered me here to confess. Now I'm off to do my penance.