Atheist Ireland Forum

Just wondering how transfers work as I want to make the best use of 2nd pref

If I vote for candidate A no.1 and candidate B no.2 etc and candidate A gets in on first count of say 5000 votes with say 1000 extra votes, are the 1000 votes then divide as a ratio of all the 6000 2nd pref. ?

I know this is one for P.ie but I forgot my PW & think the email accout I used is gone.

from

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/bre ... ing27.html

HOW DO I FILL OUT THE BALLOT PAPER?

Under the Irish system of proportional representation, you mark the ballot paper by putting the number 1 opposite the candidate you like most, followed by a number 2 opposite the candidate you like second best and so on down. You can stop at any point or fill up the entire ballot paper.

The system is very easy to use, even if the counting of the votes looks complicated. There is a great deal of flexibility in the system. If you vote number 1 for a candidate who stands a real chance of election your number two will probably not be counted.

However, if you vote number 1 for a candidate from a small party, who has little chance of being elected, the vote will pass on to your second choice and so on down until it reaches somebody who can get elected.

As far as I recall, if there is a surplus of 1,000, then a random bundle of 1,000 ballot papers are taken from the overall pile and are allocated based on second preferences. It would not be possible to divide the full pile proportionally as you would not be able to reallocate them later in further counts.

so how many prefs do you put in? I know you can do as many as you want but how many is meaningfull/usefull?

We were just looking into this (we have one vote between me and my wife) as well. We don't understand it fully how it goes and can find little info, just that site above. It is really different from what we are used to. Is this the reason independents are so populair here?

In principle, you should continue your preferences all the way down the list.

Here's why. You are in effect saying:

I want my vote to go to candidate A.

If candidate A doesn't need my vote (either because he or she is elected or eliminated) then I want it to go to candidate B.

If candidate B doesn't need my vote (either because he or she is elected or eliminated) then I want it to go to candidate C.

If candidate C doesn't need my vote (either because he or she is elected or eliminated) then I want it to go to candidate D.

etc etc etc

If you leave any candidates unnumbered, and none of the candidates you have numbered need your vote (because they are all elected or eliminated) then your vote dies and goes to nobody.

This in effect gives a one-vote advantage to the remaining candidate that you dislike the most, because you could have instead transfered your vote to somebody else who is still remaining.

In practice it is rarely the case that this will happen, but in principle that is why you should vote all the way down the list.

Thanks, found the answer, the surplus votes are divided proportionally to all 2nd pref.
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/go ... ation.html

There seems to be something missing from that explanation. It says

However, you still have to physically transfer that number of ballot papers to the piles of the remaining candidates, in order that 3rd and later preferences can be transfered if those candidates are eliminated. The above explanation does not say how those ballot papers are selected.

Here's a better explanation.

http://www.environ.ie/en/LocalGovernmen ... 895,en.pdf


So it seems that the number of votes to be transfered is calculated based on the percentages of the most recent parcel of votes that got the candidate over the quota (in the first count this will be all votes, in later counts the most recent parcel of transfered votes).

Then the actual physical ballot papers that are transfered to each candidate are picked at random, by taking them from the top of the sub-parcel of votes that transfered to that candidate.

Unless I am misreading the explanation, which seems somewhat ambiguous.

That sounds right, there's also an indepth example here from the 2002 general election.
http://www.rte.ie/news/election2011/mechanicsprstv.html

It's a bit more complex than what we are used to but I think it is a more fair. We vote for a party rather than for a person. Which has the consequence that the party get a amount of seats and they fill them how they want it. It can happen that someone get more preference votes but then not get the seat.

So what happens then is that they get some popular person who never is going to take the seat.

I think the irish is a much better system, it gives independents a chance.

Thanks for the links, I would not have found by myself.

that was the original idea! and how the PDs in the past and the Greens of late have gotten into government on the strength of it -this could never happen in Britain as the system almost excludes all small parties ,the Lib Dems would gain a lot more seats in westminster if they had this system over there

The system in the Netherlands stops people voting for small parties as well. If the don't get elected your vote goes to the biggest party (inderectly)!

Yeah good old FF tried to bring that system in here twice by referenda but luckily it failed at both times
Guess the Constitution has some uses after all

Yes, that's it. If on the 1st count candidate a gets 10,000 votes but only needs 9,000 his 1,000 surplus is passed on proportionally to the other candidates as per how his preferences went. So if candidate b got 25% of candidate a's number 2 votes, candidate b will get 250 of his surplus. The actual ballot papers which are passed on to candidate b are chosen at random. This has no effect on candidate b but could have an effect on the next candidate on the ballot. This anomoly would be fixed by a computerised system, but the current system is much more fun!

Have you voted yet? What constituency are you in because it's worth looking at what the likely outcome is to be before deciding who to transfer to.