Court allows crucifix in classrooms
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Re: Court allows crucifix in classrooms
“God and Country are an unbeatable team; they break all records for oppression and bloodshed” Luis Buñuel. Quoted in The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins.
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Re: Court allows crucifix in classrooms
Very disapointed, would it be ok to hang them upsidedown?
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HOME RULE not ROME RULE
If I'm your mission shepherd, best give it up, your welcome on my boat..god aren't. -firefly
Irish Federation of Astronomical Societies-links to local clubs & news
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Re: Court allows crucifix in classrooms
The ruling is much more secular than it seems at first glance.
In effect, it says that the display of crucifixes are okay in a secular State school environment such as Italy's, because it is not accompanied by compulsory Christian teaching and in that context can be viewed as a passive symbol.
The situation in Irish primary schools is quite different. The State provides for (not provides) schools with a religious ethos, in which the crucifix would not be viewed as a passive symbol as it is in practice accompanied by compulsory Christian teaching.
There's a brief analysis on the Atheist Ireland site at http://atheist.ie
We'll have a more detailed analysis sometime next week.
In effect, it says that the display of crucifixes are okay in a secular State school environment such as Italy's, because it is not accompanied by compulsory Christian teaching and in that context can be viewed as a passive symbol.
The situation in Irish primary schools is quite different. The State provides for (not provides) schools with a religious ethos, in which the crucifix would not be viewed as a passive symbol as it is in practice accompanied by compulsory Christian teaching.
There's a brief analysis on the Atheist Ireland site at http://atheist.ie
We'll have a more detailed analysis sometime next week.
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Re: Court allows crucifix in classrooms
Judge Power:

Neutrality requires a pluralist approach on the part of the State, not a secularist one. It encourages respect for all world views rather than a preference for one. To my mind, the Chamber Judgment was striking in its failure to recognise that secularism (which was the applicant's preferred belief or world view) was, in itself, one ideology among others. A preference for secularism over alternative world views—whether religious, philosophical or otherwise—is not a neutral option.

“God and Country are an unbeatable team; they break all records for oppression and bloodshed” Luis Buñuel. Quoted in The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins.
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Re: Court allows crucifix in classrooms
It might, since the upside down cross is a symbol of St. Peter.aZerogodist wrote:Very disapointed, would it be ok to hang them upsidedown?
That is the stupidest thing I have read all week, and I read about Dan Brown on TV Tropes.peter63 wrote:Judge Power:
Neutrality requires a pluralist approach on the part of the State, not a secularist one. It encourages respect for all world views rather than a preference for one. To my mind, the Chamber Judgment was striking in its failure to recognise that secularism (which was the applicant's preferred belief or world view) was, in itself, one ideology among others. A preference for secularism over alternative world views—whether religious, philosophical or otherwise—is not a neutral option.
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Re: Court allows crucifix in classrooms
http://www.atheist.ie/2011/03/atheist-i ... lassrooms/
Is it the basic cross T or the "man nailed to a bit of wood" -(as per comment)the display of a crucifix could be seen as a passive symbol.
Wouldn't having the crucifix being classed as non-religious be in part good, (aside from being an ethical? symbol) taking the claim of ownership away from the CCL, so if a painting of a crucifix was done with JC as a demon with hoofs, the church couldn't claim defamation of religion, or even the crucifix could be used in an advert for McDonalds with Ronald McDonald on the cross eating a bag of chips.Also significantly, the Court today rejected the argument by Italy that the crucifix is not a religious symbol, but is a cultural and ethical one. This is an important victory for secularism, as it prevents religious symbols from being introduced by stealth into secular environments.
I could go along with this if they also display the Jewish star and a scarlet-AIn this particular case, because the Italian education system is already secular, with an overall school environment that respects all religions, and because the crucifix is not associated with compulsory teaching of Christianity, it found that the display of a crucifix could be seen as a passive symbol.
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Re: Court allows crucifix in classrooms
It's a bit strange isn't it, the way a lot of christians have adopted the crucifix as their symbol? If someone I revered was shot with a gun, I wouldn't wear a pendant of a gun around my neck in memory of the person.
"The fact of your own existence is the most astonishing fact you will ever have to face. Don’t you ever get used to it." - Richard Dawkins... being shrill and offensive again I suppose.
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Re: Court allows crucifix in classrooms
Isn't there some debate about the whole notion of a crucifix in the first place. Apparently in the original Greek the word translated today as a cross actually meant an upright wooden post. (The JW's take this original interpretation, and they're always rightWouldn't having the crucifix being classed as non-religious be in part good, (aside from being an ethical? symbol) taking the claim of ownership away from the CCL

That would seem more practical in the region when wood was scarce and the 'bloody Romans!' were crucifying on industrial scales.
The crucifix is also either an adaptation of the Ankh or else mirrors the cruciform layout of pagan places of worship.
If it is allowed in a place of education, perhaps it should be open to an enquiry about it's origins and applications. Education never hurt anyone.
As yet I have not found a single case of a terrestrial animal which fertilises itself.
- Charles Darwin, The Origin of Species
(he obviously never went to Bray)
- Charles Darwin, The Origin of Species
(he obviously never went to Bray)