Atheist Ireland Forum

As part of an overhaul of employment terms and conditions for hotel, restaurant and retail sectors proposed by Enterprise Minister Richard Bruton, it is possible that extra pay on a Sunday may be abolished as a legal requirement. [Source].

I haven't heard much more about this beyond this article but my first feeling was that it would be a step towards a more secular system. Having consulted colleagues in work we think the Sunday premium came in to encourage people to work on a Sunday who were otherwise keeping holy the Sabbath - is this a correct assumption?

Obviously there are alot of issues regarding the impact of such measures, as highlighted in the article, and it will be opposed for various reasons by politicians and agencies but no opposition seems to be coming from a religious institution or even for religious reasons. I guess you could argue that it also favours Christian institutes as it may free up their followers to go back to church on a Sunday who otherwise relied on the extra pay!

Thanks Paolovf, never thought about this, allways assumed that if you worked the standard week then once over ?hours you got time+1/2 and then onto double.

Does anyone know if you worked say only one day a week, do you get more for a Sunday than a Monday?

I don't know. But if it was a case of Sunday simply being overtime for people who have already worked a full week, wouldn't they just call it overtime and not Sunday Premium Payments?

If it was a case of them trying to abolish overtime, I imagine there would be a much bigger fuss being made.

My brother works part-time in retail. He typically works on Saturday and Sunday (no where near a full week) and gets paid time-and-a-half on Sunday. I used to work in a well known hardware chain and got paid a higher rate beyond the 40hour week which was classed as 'overtime'.

From reading articles it seems that some businesses pay anything from time-and-a-third to double-time on a Sunday, so it doesn't seem to be a fixed rate. I tried to find a concrete rate on government sites but have had little success.

One thing that has hindered my search is that it's unclear what exactly this sector is? It seems to include retail, restaurants, hotels, hairdressing, security, and so forth but I haven't seen it referred to as anything specific. It seems to apply to any job on an hourly rate.

That's a good point paolovf, I hadn't given it much thought either. Even though the original reason for the Sunday premium was because it was Sunday, I don't think that removing the premium brings us anywhere nearer to a secular society.

This is far more about propping up employers at the expense of their employees. Even in a secular society it would be nice to have at least one day in the week that is supposedly for rest. Even if you rest by hiking the hills. I'd be just as upset if Christmas was cancelled for the same reason. I love Christmas!

I know many people in the hospitality business who would feel a definite pinch if this goes ahead. I can't begrudge a waitress a few extra quid an hour on a Sunday. After all, a day to relax is sacred, even if it's origins are not.

And exactly why God (the omni-everything) needed to rest for a day is beyond me. Is Creation that taxing for an all powerful being?

It's origin was indeed to compensate people for working on Sunday which was/is a religious and rest day. The campaign to abolish it comes from the dregs of our society, who profit from the drudgery of the most vulnerable workers - usually immigrants or those with little or no education and skills.

Just to clarify, companies don't have to pay time-and-a-half for Sunday, just ftr. I work in retail, and I get paid minimum wage Monday-Saturday, and I get paid 10 euro an hour for a Sunday or Bank Holiday. (Significantly less than time-and-half).

I don't think that this move brings us closer to a secular society. I wouldn't mind if the tradition of Sunday was one of those traditions that outsurvived religion.

Basically, I agree with DaithiDublin:



I mean, personally, I hate having to work Sunday. All my family have weekends off; they make plans for the weekend and they inform me at the last minute, so of course I miss everything. Even if I get enough notice, trying to get a Sunday off is really difficult. I also have worked all but one or two Bank Holidays for the past three years (as well as the past three Christmas Eves).

Having to work a Sunday, when most of the people you know are off and spending time together is crap. And I think people who have to work those days should get paid more. /end of story. If anything, Saturday wages should go up, too.

Normally if you work shift work you do not get anything extra for working Sunday unless it is actually overtime. Normally its just normal time....at least it was when I worked in Ireland 3.5 years ago.

In Germany now (with the same job in the same company) and here we do get paid overtime for both Saturday & Sunday.......yeah for me!!!!

An update on the situation.... http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0728/breaking58.html

I dont think that sunday premium has anything to do with religion but rather with the unsocial nature of working sundays and bank holidays when on average most families are at home and used to compensate thoses workers whose work/life balance is affected negatively. These premia also stand for workers who do night duty. To remove such premia would not serve to further secure a more secular society but would serve to alienate workers and negatively affect take home pay (Sunday pay is heavily taxed btw!). This of course serves to drive a greater wedge between the wealthy and the poorer strata of our (less than egalitarian) society. It's no surprise that IBEC lobby strongly for removal of premia!

Whatever way you want to run a society there is always going to be a need for people to work unsocial hours - doctors, police, chefs, publicans, public transport, etc. etc.

In alot of cases it can be tricky to find the balance between work and recreation but not impossible. I think the real challenge comes for those who have to work extended hours passed the standard 39 hours per week.