aiseiri47 wrote: There are a lot of problems with what happened - the main one is that prior to The Incident, Rebecca Watson had been discussing how she doesn't like being objectified by men in that way at conferences.
I’ve said this before and I’m open to correction on it, but I don’t remember her talking about this in particular. Threats of rape, being told to shut up and graphic sexual advances yes, but talking about being hit on in general is not something I remember.
aiseiri47 wrote: If the guy had merely though she was sexy and propositioned her in a bar, far enough - but it's almost as if he was purposely being a troll by doing exactly what she'd made a point of saying she was uncomfortable with. What a way to prove you see a woman as nothing more than a sex object than by showing you weren't taking in anything she was saying all evening. Considering what she had been discussing, I don't see how that situation could be worse.
I agree completely that it was inappropriate, but in fairness we don’t know his motivations. Is it not possible that he didn’t want to do it in front of other people for fear of embarrassment? It’s easier to get knocked back if there’s no one else around. Don’t get me wrong, it was entirely inappropriate to do it in a lift. I just think it’s possible he was being clueless rather than being a ‘troll’.
aiseiri47 wrote: But, as I said, it makes me feel uncomfortable. And I like to be able to say an awkward "thanks but no" and sidle off somewhere. You can't do that in an elevator. I had a middle-aged man hit on me on a bus when I was about 15 and even that was too much for me; sure it was a public place, but I still couldn't just hop up and get off the bus right then and there. In that situation, the man was inappropriate and frightening and I wanted to leave so I could feel safe.
On this, I couldn’t agree with you more. He shouldn’t have done it and he should have realised that he might make her uncomfortable by hitting on her in a confined place.
aiseiri47 wrote: So, I think the guy was out of line. Maybe he didn't realise how creepy he was being, but I think Rebecca Watson was fairly sound in saying "guys, don't do that". Which is what she did.
Again, that’s not all she did. She said that he did it right after she had discussed the nasty issues I mentioned above and that he clearly didn’t get it, so she was equating what he did with the other issues raised. I don’t think this was fair of her and more importantly I think I should have the right to question her on it. Granted Dawkins did it an a very stupid way, but he should be able to question.
aiseiri47 wrote: The backlash of people saying she was overreacting is unfair. The people defending the guy are far worse than the guy himself. He might have been tired and slightly drunk and had impaired judgment and didn't realize what a creeper he was being. But everyone else has the clarity of hindsight and the knowledge of how the woman in the situation made feel, and STILL can't cop on and say "Yeah, maybe he shouldn't have done that, and maybe I'll try not to do anything similar in the future".
I’m not so sure there are that many people saying the chap did absolutely nothing wrong. I suspect most people can see that hitting on her in a lift wasn’t the best decision of his day.
aiseiri47 wrote: What the guy did in the lift wasn't appropriate. And the response to Watson's very casual criticism of it has been overwhelming and shown that there is a problem with sexism in the skeptic community. And I don't think it's fair for people to claim that Christianity and Islam or outdated patriarchal systems when, even in the absence of religion, men don't respect a women's right to be creeped out by a guy propositioning her in an elevator.
Again, I agree. Except to say that, this has been building for many days now and even if I accept that Watson’s initial response was casual criticism, the overall response to her has not just been about her casual criticism, but now more so about her reaction and behavior in response to criticism.