Teenage girl refused place at school following pregnancy

mkaobrih · **Joined:** Wed Sep 05, 2007 10:48 pm **Posts:** 1592

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0430/teenag ... nancy.html

Quote:

A school has been asked to apologise to a teenager who was refused a place on the grounds that the school "was not a haven for young pregnant people or for young mothers".

The girl applied twice to the lay-owned Catholic-ethos school - first in September 2009 when she was pregnant at 16 and again the following year after her baby was born.

However, she was turned down by the principal, who is also the school's owner, founder and patron.

According to the report by the Ombudsman for Children Emily Logan - which includes school correspondence to the family - the child was denied a place at the school on the first occasion because she was pregnant and on the second because she was a single mother.

Speaking on RTÉ's Morning Ireland, Ms Logan said that there is currently no enrolment legislation that would prevent a school from acting in this way.

However Ms Logan said that the spirit of that Education Act is about accessibility and access, and that the principal was not operated in adherence with that.

Ms Logan found that the school's actions adversely affected the girl in question, were improperly discriminatory, were based on undesirable administrative practice and were contrary to fair and sound administration.

The Ombudsman said that the Department of Education has taken the response to her recommendations very seriously, and says that the absence of legislation dealing with enrolment is being addressed.

"I have made four recommendations, three of which are being acted upon by the Department of Education. The first is that they have committed to, and I understand that legislation will be drafted later this year, in relation to enrolment," Ms Logan said.

The Ombudsman also requested that the school apologise to the child in question.

"I believe that this person [the principal] has mistreated this girl and insensitively treated her and her family and it is my view that at the very least, the girl should be apologised to. They have not apologised. I am concerned about a persistent and defiant attitude and I will pursue that locally," Ms Logan said.

Ms Logan said that what had occurred in this school was highly unusual, and was not representative of attitudes in schools more broadly.

"It’s very unusual. In the eight years of the operation of my office it is highly unusual that anyone would meet our recommendations with this kind of hostility.

"However the recommendations are not binding. The best power that I have in terms of my mandatory powers, is to go to the Department of Education and request that they would carry out an inspection, that they would look at legislative and policy guidance for schools and they have committed to doing that."

this ethos rubbish is just another word for discrimination - social and religious. I hope she sues the patron/principal/owner who ever that is.

paolovf · **Joined:** Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:58 pm **Posts:** 257

mkaobrih wrote:

this ethos rubbish is just another word for discrimination - social and religious. I hope she sues the patron/principal/owner who ever that is.

I agree.

I hope they make an example of him (the principal). This sort of activity must not be tolerated. It is said in the article that this is an extraordinary incident, and I'm sure most schools wouldn't have taken this action, but I'm sure there's still a certain amount of discrimination going on.

Beebub · **Joined:** Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:22 pm **Posts:** 1014

I can't get the link to Justine McCarthy's piece on this in yesterday's Sunday Times. But she quoted the mother or the child herself as saying that the prinicipal questioned the motivation of the girl wanting to go to this particular shool because it is co-educational asking if the fact that there were males at the school was influenceing her decison to apply to that school in particular. I'm paraphrasing. Extraordinarily, he put this sentiment in writing to them.

He also said in his letter to them the old chesnut 'This is a Catholic school'.

paolovf · **Joined:** Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:58 pm **Posts:** 257

I just went back to read the comments in that article, there are quite few. There are a lot more people condoning the actions of the Principal than I would have thought. There are some seriously appalling attitudes towards this story.

I've recently watched a Channel4 series called 'Educating Essex'. The attitude (or ethos) of this school is to give every child a chance and to do everything they can to get every single child to leave with some form of qualification. Each episode follows a teenager with a different challenge; one episode follows a girl who becomes pregnant. The way they deal with her is like night and day compared to the RTE story. She is given a lot of support and information and ends up passing her exams and goes to university.

chemicals · **Posted:** Mon Apr 30, 2012 5:23 pm

Quote:

the school's owner, founder and patron.

is it a private fee paying school ? does the state pay the teachers wages ?

Dev · **Posted:** Mon Apr 30, 2012 6:25 pm

Poor girl, she should be given a pat on the back for at least trying to go back to school.

Whats interesting about this is how overtly the principal was in giving his reasons and in writing. Usually such discrimination is silent when one is in such a position of accountability.

Puck · **Joined:** Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:20 pm **Posts:** 45

Dev wrote:

Whats interesting about this is how overtly the principal was in giving his reasons and in writing. Usually such discrimination is silent when one is in such a position of accountability.

Why should the principal be? The school has a clear ethos and, the student obviously doesn't respect it. How long would anyone last in any Christian school, wearing a t-shirt printed with "There Is No God" or "Jesus was Gay" or similar. It's accepted today in Irish society that Catholic priests can be silenced if they promote an ethos which is outside of Roman Catholic doctrine. So what chance has a young, single mother to be respected by school authorities. When you attend a religious school, you must accept or respect their ethos, even if you don't agree.

Don't get me wrong, I think what has happened is appalling, but while Ireland forces all schools to have a religious ethos(correct me if there are any non-domination schools?), this sort of shameful discrimination will continue. It's only when cases like this hit the front page of the newspapers, does the general public stop for 30 seconds to consider the statues quo.

What I would like know is what support does the Education Department provide the young mother, to ensure that she could continue her education?

Puck · **Joined:** Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:20 pm **Posts:** 45

Some interesting reading:
http://www.oco.ie/assets/files/Complaint/OCOInvestigationretheactionsofSchoolA.pdf
http://www.education.ie/insreports/report2_65241N.htm

Beebub · **Joined:** Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:22 pm **Posts:** 1014

Found the quote. The principal questioned the girls motivation for changing schools and asked, in writing:

Quote:

Was there a male dimension to this?

Asshole.

Puck · **Joined:** Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:20 pm **Posts:** 45

Quote:

Was there a male dimension to this?

No, it was a virgin birth.

Beebub · **Joined:** Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:22 pm **Posts:** 1014

No you misunderstand. The school in question is co-educational. He was asking was the fact that there were boys in his school the reason why she wanted to go there. He was basically calling her a slut. In writing.

chemicals · **Posted:** Tue May 01, 2012 11:44 am

Beebub wrote:

He was basically calling her a slut. In writing.

or he was wondering if the "father of the child" was one of his pupils and that was the real reason she wanted to attend the school - to be near him ????

paolovf · **Joined:** Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:58 pm **Posts:** 257

Puck wrote:

It's only when cases like this hit the front page of the newspapers, does the general public stop for 30 seconds to consider the statues quo.

Unfortunately this is how things tend to transpire when a minority is involved. The majority are slow to react unless some sort of atrocity occurs and even then most lose interest soon after.

Luckily there are groups like Atheist Ireland who realise the issues that exist in our educational system and are putting pressure on the government. It seems to me like Minister Quinn (and others) are trying to some extent. If we could draw some empathy from the average Catholic parent overnight we'd be laughing, but for now they are getting what they want and that's all that matters.

Beebub · **Joined:** Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:22 pm **Posts:** 1014

chemicals wrote:

Beebub wrote:

He was basically calling her a slut. In writing.

or he was wondering if the "father of the child" was one of his pupils and that was the real reason she wanted to attend the school - to be near him ????

No. I think it's pretty clear from the report that he was suggesting she wanted to go to that school rather than the others because there were boys at his school and not at the others.

aZerogodist · **Posted:** Wed May 02, 2012 1:43 pm

mkaobrih wrote:

this ethos rubbish is just another word for discrimination - social and religious. I hope she sues the patron/principal/owner who ever that is.

I agree.

In response to puck, there are no guidelines for what the school-ethos is, ask any school exactly what it is, what is acceptable and what isn't, and you'll get some blank non-info response, because basically it depends on the principle/bishop-patron, so one school; that's ok, sure wasn't 15 yr old Mary unmarried when implanted with baby-jesus, another principle, she should be stoned to death, can't have that sort of thing in our school, as our catholic ethos is baised on the love of jesus Holy christ
Unless puck you have a definitive description/explanation of what the catholic or COI school ethos is, I'ld love to hear it.

What really gets me is;
1. The ombusman is basically powerless, I assume this is the ombusmann for children & child protection, and can only recommend creation of a state law to protect underage/unmarried students in state funded schools. (even if a school is private it still has to abide by law of the land and also recieves grants)

2. The Department of Education should be disbanded and all given the sack without pensions, then a new department formed whose primary mission would be to put childrens wellfare above all else, above any form of prejudice, ethotic disrimination, political/religous influrence and secondary mission to mantain/own and fully govern all schools in Ireland, and if they say boo to a school principle, the principle will shiver.
I relalise we do have great motivated people in the dep of Ed, but the dep of Ed might as well not exist, it's like it's bound and gagged, scrap it or free it from it's restraints, imo it's just too injured/damaged

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Teenage girl refused place at school following pregnancy

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