Future of Atheism

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Dev
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Re: Future of Atheism

Post by Dev » Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:21 am

Tulip1 wrote:Never heard of Quackers before, just googled them and they sounds like a sect (correct spelling?). Is that a large group in Ireland>
They have no priests in their religion, it is a community organized thing. My dad went to a Quaker school in Drogheda, I have a mate who is a Quaker at least on paper anyway but no they aren't that big. Their most prolific act was making soup kitchens for catholics during the famine.
Feardorcha
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Re: Future of Atheism

Post by Feardorcha » Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:11 pm

Before they came to Ireland with the soup, they came with the sword - as part of the Cromwellian crusade. It was more massacre rather than ministrone in them days.
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Re: Future of Atheism

Post by Ygern » Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:49 pm

I've only had one experience of the Quakers when I accompanied a fellow teacher along to a meeting she was going to.
There was no ceremony as such, the members just sat together in contemplative silence for - I don't know - 45 minutes? An hour?

Afterwards they had tea and discussed what needed to be done on the various social / charitable projects they were working on. All in all fairly benign, no dogma.

But that isn't to say that they don't have a set of core beliefs. Apparently the silent meetings are only held by a minority of groups; the rest of them espouse a mixture of beliefs that incorporate elements of Christianity and a little bit of woo. They also have something called "testimonies" which also seem benign enough: peace, equality, truth & simplicity.
The universe is huge and old, and rare things happen all the time ~ Lawrence Krauss
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Dev
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Re: Future of Atheism

Post by Dev » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:16 pm

Ygern wrote:I've only had one experience of the Quakers when I accompanied a fellow teacher along to a meeting she was going to.
There was no ceremony as such, the members just sat together in contemplative silence for - I don't know - 45 minutes? An hour?

Afterwards they had tea and discussed what needed to be done on the various social / charitable projects they were working on. All in all fairly benign, no dogma.

But that isn't to say that they don't have a set of core beliefs. Apparently the silent meetings are only held by a minority of groups; the rest of them espouse a mixture of beliefs that incorporate elements of Christianity and a little bit of woo. They also have something called "testimonies" which also seem benign enough: peace, equality, truth & simplicity.
I'm the same, I went along to a meeting once with my mate. It was a far better approach than the Catholic one, children sat drawing pictures and drinking orange squash while the adults discussed in a room next door. I don't know if the division of children and adults is the case in other meetings.
Feardorcha wrote:Before they came to Ireland with the soup, they came with the sword - as part of the Cromwellian crusade. It was more massacre rather than ministrone in them days.
Sounds interesting I always assumed them to be a very peaceful religion. Any linkages?
Tulip1
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Re: Future of Atheism

Post by Tulip1 » Wed Aug 26, 2009 7:09 pm

Thanks for the explanations!!
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
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Re: Future of Atheism

Post by Feardorcha » Wed Aug 26, 2009 8:37 pm

I owe the Quakers an apology having confused them with Puritans, Levellers and other non-conformist Protestants of the 17th century.
The Quakers were indeed pacifists and many have paid a high price for that principle over the centuries, ever since George Fox founded the sect.

"We utterly deny all outward wars and strife, and fighting with outward weapons, for any end, or under any pretence whatever... Therefore we cannot learn war any more."
— A Declaration from the Harmless and Innocent People of God called Quakers, presented to Charles II by George Fox, 1660.

I often offend religions because they offend me but if there is one religion that I shouldn't have offended it's the Quakers. Mea culpa.
(Normal anti-religious tirades will resume as soon as possible)
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Re: Future of Atheism

Post by mkaobrih » Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:57 pm

Feardorcha wrote:Before they came to Ireland with the soup, they came with the sword - as part of the Cromwellian crusade. It was more massacre rather than ministrone in them days.
Are you sure about that? - they are after all "Quakers" - Massive pacifists. They don’t baptise till 16 and let their children have a wildish life in late teens before they commit to their religion, which is voluntary (vague facts picked up while browsing so may be inaccurate). I quite like them.
The church complains of persecution when it's not allowed to persecute.
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Re: Future of Atheism

Post by smiffy » Wed Aug 26, 2009 10:04 pm

Feardorcha wrote:I owe the Quakers an apology having confused them with Puritans, Levellers and other non-conformist Protestants of the 17th century.
Many Levellers come over with Cromwell, then?
Atheism is a religion the same way that NOT collecting stamps is a hobby - Scott Adams
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Re: Future of Atheism

Post by Feardorcha » Wed Aug 26, 2009 11:43 pm

Yes
Dev
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Re: Future of Atheism

Post by Dev » Thu Aug 27, 2009 12:07 am

I have to say, I'm gaining a lot of respect for the Quakers the more I read about them. They really are light years ahead of most religions. It is a very reasonable religion with almost no indoctrination, no wars, no abuses. I attribute this to its community based institutional structure. There exists no middle men with agendas to influence others and no hierarchy to allow for abuse of power. As attractive as it is as religions go. It isn't all wine and roses though, there is still a super natural entity and I can't bring myself to even acknowledge the possibility of an intelligent god and they still use the bible which isn't the exactly the most appropriate book for teaching morality.
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