Proof for the existence an Intelligent Creator

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davef
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Re: Proof for the existence an Intelligent Creator

Post by davef » Tue Dec 08, 2009 6:15 pm

Adonai88 wrote:
davef wrote:Whether I have or not is irrelevant to this discussion.
for me it is relevant. I do only share my faith with people, that have a minimum of decency, education, and lasto not least, enough intelligence , to argument without insulting the counter part. You have unfortunately not met these minimum requirements, and therefor i will not answer anymore your posts.
Boo hoo. I don't want to share your faith.

Tell me this - do you understand that infinity is not simply one number, bigger than all others; but rather that it is a mathematical concept, and can be shown to have a variety of sizes? Answer that for me, and then maybe you can presume to lecture me on my level of intelligence versus yours.

Or are you simply going to throw your toys out of the pram, like all cowardly theist apologists, and avoid the question when you are shown to be wrong?
Covmeister
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Re: Proof for the existence an Intelligent Creator

Post by Covmeister » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:23 pm

I just finished reading through this entire thread, and I have to say it made me laugh quite a few times.

I am still stunned on a daily basis by the absolute insanity of religion, the havok it wreaks on the human mind. All logic seems to just fly out the window.

We have a theist (seemingly a born-again christian) trying to prove the existence of god scientifically, mathematically and by philosiphising. Bouts of scripture are flung across the page along with scientific "fact".

I guess this post doesnt really attribute much, but I just needed to ask... Is it the same for everybody? Do you still get stunned like this? Amazed by the pure and unbridled insanity that is coursing through the mind of religious zealots everywhere? Or after a while do you just get fed up and pay no attention to the fly buzzing around your head while you're hanging up the fly-traps?

I mean.... yikes.
"Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known."
Carl Sagan
eccles
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Re: Proof for the existence an Intelligent Creator

Post by eccles » Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:06 pm

Adonai88 wrote:
eccles wrote:I am going to close my input into this discussion. I am not admitting defeat. Absolutely not. I am confident that the knowledge I have obtained in the 69 years of my life re science is correct and the attempts at brainwashing me by the Jesuit Fathers failed utterly.

I am not a good debator. I have not time to carry on debating with Christians who have a closed mind. At least Adonis does not believe that the World is 6,000 years old. He does have a reasonable knowledge of science and astrophisics but his conculsions about a "Creator/God" are wrong.

"Not Logical, Captain" Spock
then your position is based on personal incredulity and bad will, but not on scientific evidence and reason.

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people39 who suppress the truth by their40 unrighteousness,41 1:19 because what can be known about God is plain to them,42 because God has made it plain to them. 1:20 For since the creation of the world his invisible attributes – his eternal power and divine nature – have been clearly seen, because they are understood through what has been made. So people43 are without excuse. 1:21 For although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God or give him thanks, but they became futile in their thoughts and their senseless hearts44 were darkened. 1:22 Although they claimed45 to be wise, they became fools
To all my learned Atheist collegues here:

Adonia88 has shown his true colours.

HE IS A BIBLE THUMPER

He has blown it by quoting from the Book of Bullshit and from an Epistle attrubited to the man who was againt St. Peter's faction and began his own.

People like Adonia88 really piss me off by quoting the Holey Babble to try to prove their point.
Adonia, do yourself a favour and migrate to the United Christian States of America to Tennessee in the Bible Belt where you can bible thump to your heart's content.
em hotep

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Robert Tobin Minister, First Church of Atheism (Philidelphia)
"May Your God Go WIth You"
Dr Raskolnikov
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Re: Proof for the existence an Intelligent Creator

Post by Dr Raskolnikov » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:17 am

People like Adonia88 really piss me off by quoting the Holey Babble to try to prove their point.
The Holy Bible is the inerrant Word of the Eternal Almighty:

a) If it's in the Bible, it must be true.
b) Why? Because God says so.
c) Why? Because it says so in the Bible.

QED satan worshippers. :twisted:
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins the movie by telling you how it ends. Well, I say there are some things we don't want to know. Important things. - Ned Flanders
bockedy
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Re: Proof for the existence an Intelligent Creator

Post by bockedy » Wed Dec 09, 2009 12:27 am

Yep, this guy has been here before using similar arguments he used in this thread. After getting his arguments ripped to shreds, he said he was done with his evangelising here on this post

Regens Küchl compiled a very comprehensive list of other fora where Adonai88 has been evangelising before. Our forum is part of his pattern and shows that he has no real interest in being part of the community here.

He is very welcome to contribute and put his religious argument if he has one, but there has to be something more than just transparent evangelising. Nobody here is interested in that. What he just doesn't get is that any one of us could just walk into a church at any time and get all the evangelising we could ask for. It's not like in Holy Catholic Oireland there is a lack of opportunity.

His strategy is wasting his and our time, and I for one don't appreciate that.
May Ea smite thee with the might of his fist!
eccles
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Re: Proof for the existence an Intelligent Creator

Post by eccles » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:06 am

I just joined "Atheist Think Tank" and guess who I found there? Angelo, this time using the handle GLY888
em hotep

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Robert Tobin Minister, First Church of Atheism (Philidelphia)
"May Your God Go WIth You"
nozzferrahhtoo
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Re: Proof for the existence an Intelligent Creator

Post by nozzferrahhtoo » Wed Dec 09, 2009 9:28 am

Adonai88,

Frankly no it is “not enough” as you put it. The “Big Bang” model which you appear to but cite mostly incorrectly is still only a model talking about our universe from the point it came into it’s current state.

All your diatribe has been directed at the universe before it was in this state. Making temporal, causality and structural claims about it that we simply have no evidence or model for at this time.

In other words, you are making claims about something we know nothing about and citing as your evidence something completely different that you appear to know nothing about.

This is hardly evidence for anything except your desire to misrepresent science. It certainly is not evidence for a non human intelligence which had a hand in the “big bang” event.
So it seems we agree on this point. there is no " current " form ,if the universe is finite. Its a contradiction.
Since I never said this it is baffling to me how you come to the conclusion we agree on it. Do me one favour: Keep YOUR words out of MY mouth as I clearly have more than enough of my own.
Adonai88
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Re: Proof for the existence an Intelligent Creator

Post by Adonai88 » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:21 pm

bockedy wrote: His strategy is wasting his and our time, and I for one don't appreciate that.
if you think you are wasting your time here, who obligates you to participate ? btw. i back up my arguments, without taking the bible on hand, so your point is baseless.
Adonai88
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Re: Proof for the existence an Intelligent Creator

Post by Adonai88 » Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:25 pm

nozzferrahhtoo wrote:Adonai88,

Frankly no it is “not enough” as you put it. The “Big Bang” model which you appear to but cite mostly incorrectly is still only a model talking about our universe from the point it came into it’s current state.

All your diatribe has been directed at the universe before it was in this state. Making temporal, causality and structural claims about it that we simply have no evidence or model for at this time.

In other words, you are making claims about something we know nothing about and citing as your evidence something completely different that you appear to know nothing about.

This is hardly evidence for anything except your desire to misrepresent science. It certainly is not evidence for a non human intelligence which had a hand in the “big bang” event.
So it seems we agree on this point. there is no " current " form ,if the universe is finite. Its a contradiction.
Since I never said this it is baffling to me how you come to the conclusion we agree on it. Do me one favour: Keep YOUR words out of MY mouth as I clearly have more than enough of my own.
my quest is what is the best explanation for the origin of the universe, and based on what we know based on scientific research, God seems to me the best explanation. If you agree on that, or not, is your choice.
Dr Raskolnikov
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Re: Proof for the existence an Intelligent Creator

Post by Dr Raskolnikov » Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:55 pm

my quest is what is the best explanation for the origin of the universe, and based on what we know based on scientific research, God seems to me the best explanation. If you agree on that, or not, is your choice.
Your personal quest has led you to form an opinion.

Yes you are right, whether others agree with your opinion or not, is their choice.

Your inability to understand the science does, however, tend to detract from the force of your argument. I would argue that you are wrong to attempt to use science to explain faith at all.

Go back to St Augustine:
Saint Augustine (A.D. 354-430) in his work The Literal Meaning of Genesis (De Genesi ad litteram libri duodecim) provided excellent advice for all Christians who are faced with the task of interpreting Scripture in the light of scientific knowledge. This translation is by J. H. Taylor in Ancient Christian Writers, Newman Press, 1982, volume 41.

Usually, even a non-Christian knows something about the earth, the heavens, and the other elements of this world, about the motion and orbit of the stars and even their size and relative positions, about the predictable eclipses of the sun and moon, the cycles of the years and the seasons, about the kinds of animals, shrubs, stones, and so forth, and this knowledge he hold to as being certain from reason and experience. Now, it is a disgraceful and dangerous thing for an infidel to hear a Christian, presumably giving the meaning of Holy Scripture, talking nonsense on these topics; and we should take all means to prevent such an embarrassing situation, in which people show up vast ignorance in a Christian and laugh it to scorn. The shame is not so much that an ignorant individual is derided, but that people outside the household of faith think our sacred writers held such opinions, and, to the great loss of those for whose salvation we toil, the writers of our Scripture are criticized and rejected as unlearned men. If they find a Christian mistaken in a field which they themselves know well and hear him maintaining his foolish opinions about our books, how are they going to believe those books in matters concerning the resurrection of the dead, the hope of eternal life, and the kingdom of heaven, when they think their pages are full of falsehoods and on facts which they themselves have learnt from experience and the light of reason? Reckless and incompetent expounders of Holy Scripture bring untold trouble and sorrow on their wiser brethren when they are caught in one of their mischievous false opinions and are taken to task by those who are not bound by the authority of our sacred books. For then, to defend their utterly foolish and obviously untrue statements, they will try to call upon Holy Scripture for proof and even recite from memory many passages which they think support their position, although they understand neither what they say nor the things about which they make assertion. [1 Timothy 1.7]
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins the movie by telling you how it ends. Well, I say there are some things we don't want to know. Important things. - Ned Flanders
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