Is Atheist becoming just an other religion?

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happynewyear
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Is Atheist becoming just an other religion?

Post by happynewyear » Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:06 am

Where are the free thinkers in atheism?
With "Prophets or Priests" like Dennett and Dawkins etc leading the way to the "promised land" is the ideology becoming a fixed belief system?
Thoughts become ideas and when the ideas are taken on the become beliefs and so hamper free thinking.
I have notice in most of the discussion on this site quotes are made to backup arguements but actual experience is generally dismissed.
How can I take on a theory which has no relevence in my experience?
eccles
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Re: Is Atheist becoming just an other religion?

Post by eccles » Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:40 am

happynewyear wrote:Where are the free thinkers in atheism?
With "Prophets or Priests" like Dennett and Dawkins etc leading the way to the "promised land" is the ideology becoming a fixed belief system?
Thoughts become ideas and when the ideas are taken on the become beliefs and so hamper free thinking.
I have notice in most of the discussion on this site quotes are made to backup arguements but actual experience is generally dismissed.
How can I take on a theory which has no relevence in my experience?
I don't think Dawkins and Dennett can be called "Prophets". Atheism is not and can never be a "Religion". Atheists are not like L Ron Hubbard who register bullshit like Scientology as a "Relgion" for the tax benefits.

All Atheism is is the acceptance that there is and never was a "God" or "Gods". I am a member of the Richard Dawkins Forum, the Atheist Foundation of Australia and a paid up member of this Forum. All Atheists are doing is going public to counteract the poison that Religion has spread and is still spreading. We are also trying to stop the attacks on Science, especially those attacks in the United Christian States of America which is becoming more of a backward country than it ever was.

We Atheists stand for REASON, not fables based on the worst book of fiction ever written - the Bible.

WE STAND FOR FREEDOM FROM RELIGION.
em hotep

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Robert Tobin Minister, First Church of Atheism (Philidelphia)
"May Your God Go WIth You"
inedifix
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Re: Is Atheist becoming just an other religion?

Post by inedifix » Wed Jan 20, 2010 9:40 am

happynewyear wrote:Where are the free thinkers in atheism?
All atheists are free thinkers, because their thinking is free from the shackles of religious indoctrination, dogma, and received knowledge.
happynewyear wrote:With "Prophets or Priests" like Dennett and Dawkins...
They are not prophets or priests. One is a biologist and the other is a philosopher. Personally, I don't much like Dennett. I'm not a fan of philosophers.
happynewyear wrote:...leading the way to the "promised land"...
They are leading no one, anywhere. There is no promised land.
happynewyear wrote:...is the ideology...
It's not an ideology. Just like not believing in the tooth fairy is not an ideology.
happynewyear wrote:becoming a fixed belief system?
No. Atheism is an absence of belief. You can't fix what you don't have.
happynewyear wrote:Thoughts become ideas and when the ideas are taken on the become beliefs and so hamper free thinking.
What complete nonsense. What you've effectively just said, is that thinking hampers free thinking! What are we all supposed to do, stop thinking in order to think more freely?
happynewyear wrote:I have notice in most of the discussion on this site quotes are made to backup arguements but actual experience is generally dismissed.
I think you mean people cite evidence to back up their arguments. I know that's a tough one for people who believe in what's clearly not there, but that's the nature of the rational beast.
happynewyear wrote:How can I take on a theory which has no relevence in my experience?
Who said you should?

And atheism is not a theory. Just the default position for the logical mind. I wake up in the morning, I see no gods anywhere in my kitchen, on my lawn, or in the road outside. That's my experience. I go about my business day in, day out... no gods. I don't need a theory not to believe in what patently isn't there.

J
“What we call chaos is just patterns we haven't recognized. What we call random is just patterns we can't decipher. What we can't understand we call nonsense. There is no free will. There are no variables. There is only the inevitable.” Chuck Palahniuk
bipedalhumanoid
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Re: Is Atheist becoming just an other religion?

Post by bipedalhumanoid » Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:36 am

happynewyear wrote:Where are the free thinkers in atheism?
With "Prophets or Priests" like Dennett and Dawkins etc leading the way to the "promised land" is the ideology becoming a fixed belief system?
Thoughts become ideas and when the ideas are taken on the become beliefs and so hamper free thinking.
I have notice in most of the discussion on this site quotes are made to backup arguements but actual experience is generally dismissed.
How can I take on a theory which has no relevence in my experience?
Load of tosh.

The only reason you assume we think that way is because that's how you think.

Atheism=absence of belief in any deities

It isn't a belief system and it has no doctrine. Those of us who were calling ourselves atheists prior to 2004 probably came to the conclusion on our own. I didn't know a single other person who was an atheist. Most people were completely indiferent to religion and others were highly religious. There was absolutely no questioning of the existence of god in school, at home or in the media.

Any time I wanted to talk about my views of religion there was someone somewhere telling me I had to shut up.

It is very un-PC to question religion in the media and that taboo over the past 6 years has been on a path towards being slowly crushed.

I'd never even heard of Richard Dawkins until about 2005. At this stage he didn't even have a web site. I'd never come across any kind of atheist forum online where this subject could be discussed until I discovered You tube and eventualy thought to type the word 'atheist' into the search engine.

The surge in 'popularity' of atheist literature and talk in the media is a backlash caused by a lifetime of supression. You're not seeing a massive surge in the number of atheists who exist, you're seeing a surge in existing atheists publicly acknowledging and discussing their unbelief.

Sure you might find that a lot of atheists share similar views when it comes to certain political issues. However, these views generally are a natural logical progression from a lack of a belief in the supernatural. A progression from replacing ancient supersition with modern scientific scepticism.

Having said that there is plenty of disagreement that you don't seem to acknowledge. Some of us are socialists, some of us are libetarians, some of us a liberals, some of us despise liberals, some of us believe we should keep our views of religion to ourselves, some of us believe we must speak out against religion at any given opportunity.

A quick scan of the threads in this forum and you will find plenty of disagreement. You'll then find that your spurious position is based mainly on bias and rationalisation.
"The fact of your own existence is the most astonishing fact you will ever have to face. Don’t you ever get used to it." - Richard Dawkins... being shrill and offensive again I suppose.
Ygern
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Re: Is Atheist becoming just an other religion?

Post by Ygern » Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:14 pm

I posted this elsewhere, but it's really more relevant to this thread

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But seriously happynewyear, your metaphor doesn't work very well.
Even if we accept that
Prophet = Dennett (well, at least he's got the right sort of beard)
then
???? what = Promised Land
and
???? what = ideology

As others have said, atheism is not a theory, and is completely devoid of any dogma or doctrine, so I am genuinely curious as to what "theory" you are finding incompatible with your life. I am not trying to have a go at you, I'd really like to have a discussion with you about this if you would elaborate on what specific issues or concerns you have.
The universe is huge and old, and rare things happen all the time ~ Lawrence Krauss
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Rational_thinker
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Re: Is Atheist becoming just an other religion?

Post by Rational_thinker » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:10 pm

Ok - so I'm going to get my hard hat on here... but: I have really noticed that there are massive similarities between how we atheists and the religious sound. ie our methods and tone of debate are really similar. One of the things that made me realise that religion was a load of old tosh was how similar they all are - not in terms of their respective theologies - but in terms of the ways they propogate themselves.

Atheists like to think of themselves as free thinkers, and certainly that is the base premise. Being human though, most of us like to belong to a group of people like us. It reassures us. That's why we hang out on boards like this.

Now - none of those things validate or invalidate our position. But they do make me nervous.

To give an example: periodically there is an exchange between a board like this and a religious equivalent. They come here - and post some troll stuff. We go there and post some troll stuff. Both sides retreat to lick their wounds and make very similar statements about the idocy of the other side, how closed minded they are etc. We have our own vocab - they claim we hate them, their god and their book (which is silly - because we really don't). We claim - well - all that stuff we claim.

The point is: while the content may be different, it sounds identical to an outsider.

Should it? Wouldn't true free thinking have much more debate here and much less consensus?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence Carl Sagan
What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. – Christopher Hitchens
People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs Unknown
Regens Küchl
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Re: Is Atheist becoming just an other religion?

Post by Regens Küchl » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:16 pm

inedifix wrote: All atheists are free thinkers, because their thinking is free from the shackles of religious indoctrination, dogma, and received knowledge.
Not true. There are tons of stubborn Atheists also with many kinds of psichic shackles of some kind, though not in context with god(s) :roll:
inedifix wrote:They are leading no one, anywhere. There is no promised land.
Not true. There is a wish for a land without rule of religion (irish blasphemy law comes to mind), without rule of unspeakable rich churches who have great political might also :wink:
eccles
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Re: Is Atheist becoming just an other religion?

Post by eccles » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:39 pm

Regens Küchl wrote:
inedifix wrote: All atheists are free thinkers, because their thinking is free from the shackles of religious indoctrination, dogma, and received knowledge.
Not true. There are tons of stubborn Atheists also with many kinds of psichic shackles of some kind, though not in context with god(s) :roll:
inedifix wrote:They are leading no one, anywhere. There is no promised land.
Not true. There is a wish for a land without rule of religion (irish blasphemy law comes to mind), without rule of unspeakable rich churches who have great political might also :wink:
NASA hopes to go to Mars in about 20 years. Why don't we Atheists join the mission and name the Spaceship "Mayflower II".
em hotep

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Regens Küchl
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Re: Is Atheist becoming just an other religion?

Post by Regens Küchl » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:39 pm

Rational_thinker wrote: To give an example: periodically there is an exchange between a board like this and a religious equivalent. They come here - and post some troll stuff. We go there and post some troll stuff. Both sides retreat to lick their wounds and make very similar statements about the idocy of the other side, how closed minded they are etc.
1) Religious forums are much more censored and you get banned much faster if you disagree with the maine doctrine there, than on Atheist forums :evil:
Example: eccles got recently banned on catholicanswers and the whole forum section where he posted got closed for unknown times to come by the mods :x
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2980

2)I do not know of any that massive atheist trolls that the Xians, Muslims and other Monotheists have :lol:
Example I : our friend (I named him so, though he uses other aliases too) antiatheist
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3083
Example II and III : Angelo and Geisterangelo
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2300&start=150
Regens Küchl
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Re: Is Atheist becoming just an other religion?

Post by Regens Küchl » Wed Jan 20, 2010 2:48 pm

eccles wrote: NASA hopes to go to Mars in about 20 years. Why don't we Atheists join the mission and name the Spaceship "Mayflower II".
Cause it would be a bad omen, or has America become a land that is free from religious rules :cry:

Believe ye me - When man settles in space, the Xians and Muslims, their priests and churchleaders will be the firsts who want a big say in the matter and a bigger part of the cake :arrow:

There are already debates in Xian forums sayng that all found aliens will have to serve the eartmen because Jesus Crist made the earthmen special by giving them his grace, and there are muslim imams who teach Islam has the duty to conquer all live out there in space :twisted:
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