Identifying with a Sport and Nationalism are just as irratio

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Identifying with a Sporting Team and Nationalism are just as irrational as religion

Agree
5
19%
Disagree
14
54%
Agree with the Nationalism part
6
23%
Agree with the Sporting part
1
4%
Don't Know
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 26
Tulip1
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Re: Identifying with a Sport and Nationalism are just as irratio

Post by Tulip1 » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:35 pm

quote]

I wouldn't worry, if your a Scottish soccer fan you are used to being upset :D[/quote]

true!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
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Re: Identifying with a Sport and Nationalism are just as irratio

Post by Beebub » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:33 am

Ireland 0 Russia 0
Armenia 4 Slovakia 0

WOO HOO!!
Tulip1
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Re: Identifying with a Sport and Nationalism are just as irratio

Post by Tulip1 » Wed Sep 07, 2011 11:25 am

Beebub wrote:Ireland 0 Russia 0
Armenia 4 Slovakia 0

WOO HOO!!

two surprices there!!
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
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Re: Identifying with a Sport and Nationalism are just as irratio

Post by bipedalhumanoid » Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:53 pm

It's unfortunate that the discussion on this topic was derailed back in September, but the result of the poll is interesting nontheless.

The question wasn't worded as well as it could have been. For all we know the 12 who disagreed with the statement could have considerd nationalism and sporting ferver to be slightly less irrational than religious belief.

When I chose to reject the the religious views of my parents and greater society, I was also prompted to question some of the other things that I was instructed by my society to believe without any supporting argument or evidence. The point of the question was really just to identify whether other forum members had the same experience.

Regarding Jingoism. The idea that it's a rational, or even good thing to believe that your country is the greatest in the world on the grounds that you happen to have been born there, makes as much sense to me as believing that the religion of your parents is the one true religion.

And what is the reason that I should feel I have acheived something, and thus have something to celebrate, when a team I arbitrarily chose to follow, happens to win something? I get the impression that other people who watch sporting events have a very different experience to me.
"The fact of your own existence is the most astonishing fact you will ever have to face. Don’t you ever get used to it." - Richard Dawkins... being shrill and offensive again I suppose.
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Re: Identifying with a Sport and Nationalism are just as irratio

Post by MichaelNugent » Sat Jan 07, 2012 3:07 pm

I think there is some level of irrationality in all of them, but that religion is more irrational as it includes supernatural beliefs.

On the other hand, football can be worse than religion, because you can change your religion but you can't change your football team :mrgreen:

Because of decisions that I made as a child, I am now stuck with supporting Bohemians and Leeds United until I die. Ah, well.
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Re: Identifying with a Sport and Nationalism are just as irratio

Post by DaithiDublin » Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:38 pm

MichaelNugent wrote:...football can be worse than religion, because you can change your religion but you can't change your football team :mrgreen:

Because of decisions that I made as a child, I am now stuck with supporting Bohemians and Leeds United until I die. Ah, well.
Well at least Bohemians and Leeds United's claim on your support is finite! :wink:
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Re: Identifying with a Sport and Nationalism are just as irratio

Post by Dr Raskolnikov » Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:09 pm

I agree with the biped on this one. One of the main reasons I hate religion is that people have always tried to make me conform to it. I have had precisely the same experience with national pride and sport.

I still don't understand why people say "we were robbed" or "we won", when they are not actually members of the team in question. How can people claim a share in the success of a sporting team if they've had no input into that success? I had to deal with a lot of crap growing up simply because I had no interest in team sports. This crap came from fellow pupils, teachers and even my own family, which left me feeling like I was the only one in the world who didn't want to be a part of the world of "sport". I don't know if anyone else has had similar experiences?

And nationalism was preached by priests and teachers, particularly through the medium of the Irish language and GAA sports.

All of the above have a similar place in my heart to religion.
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins the movie by telling you how it ends. Well, I say there are some things we don't want to know. Important things. - Ned Flanders
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Re: Identifying with a Sport and Nationalism are just as irratio

Post by Tulip1 » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:04 am

Dr Raskolnikov wrote:I agree with the biped on this one. One of the main reasons I hate religion is that people have always tried to make me conform to it. I have had precisely the same experience with national pride and sport.

I still don't understand why people say "we were robbed" or "we won", when they are not actually members of the team in question. How can people claim a share in the success of a sporting team if they've had no input into that success? I had to deal with a lot of crap growing up simply because I had no interest in team sports. This crap came from fellow pupils, teachers and even my own family, which left me feeling like I was the only one in the world who didn't want to be a part of the world of "sport". I don't know if anyone else has had similar experiences?

And nationalism was preached by priests and teachers, particularly through the medium of the Irish language and GAA sports.

All of the above have a similar place in my heart to religion.
Since football (soccer) is a game of money, the people that actually go to a match and buy the merchandise actually contribute directly to the success of the club
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
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Re: Identifying with a Sport and Nationalism are just as irratio

Post by bipedalhumanoid » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:03 am

MichaelNugent wrote:I think there is some level of irrationality in all of them, but that religion is more irrational as it includes supernatural beliefs.

On the other hand, football can be worse than religion, because you can change your religion but you can't change your football team :mrgreen:

Because of decisions that I made as a child, I am now stuck with supporting Bohemians and Leeds United until I die. Ah, well.
I agree that supernatural claims are far more extraordinary and therefore more irrational.
Tulip1 wrote: Since football (soccer) is a game of money, the people that actually go to a match and buy the merchandise actually contribute directly to the success of the club
That's a good point, which would apply to all professional sports where there is no salary cap and national representative ameteur sports where the tax payer fits the bill. But I can't help but feel it's a bit of a rationalisation.

How many people switch teams when they feel they're not getting value for money? For all other activities I can think of where people are invested financially, said people would have some kind of cut of point in mind where they'd be willing to cut their losses. If the financial contribution was the reason for sticking with the team, I'd expect there to be a certain point where people who support consistently losing teams stop doing so and either pick a new team or stop following the sport/league altogether.

Also, how many ex-pats stop supporting their home country in the Olympics because they're now paying tax in another country? Then there are the many people who support teams without buying any merchandise or attending the games.
"The fact of your own existence is the most astonishing fact you will ever have to face. Don’t you ever get used to it." - Richard Dawkins... being shrill and offensive again I suppose.
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Re: Identifying with a Sport and Nationalism are just as irratio

Post by Dr Raskolnikov » Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:38 am

Tulip1 wrote:Since football (soccer) is a game of money, the people that actually go to a match and buy the merchandise actually contribute directly to the success of the club
But almost all of the football supporters I knew growing up supported Manchester United or Liverpool, but we lived in Dunlaoghaire. :?

And I still feel that it's somewhat hollow to claim "we" did well unless you were actually on the pitch!
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins the movie by telling you how it ends. Well, I say there are some things we don't want to know. Important things. - Ned Flanders
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