A vote for Labour is a vote for abortion

Commentary on and links to religion or atheism in the media
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Bik
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A vote for Labour is a vote for abortion

Post by Bik » Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:08 am

David Quinn, the popes rubber hammer, has come out firmly against the Labour party in todays Independant:
I've been amazed in the last few weeks at the number of practising Catholics I've come across who are considering voting for Labour. Given that Labour is pro-abortion, how do they justify this?

It turns out a lot of them haven't the first clue about Labour's position on abortion. Amazing, but true. They don't know, for example, that Labour wants to legislate for the X case ruling of 1992
It is my understanding that Ireland is obliged to legislate on the X case ruling but successive governments have kept their head in the sand on this? Quinn offers no solution except continuance of this policy.
from a Catholic and Christian point of view, it is not only Labour's stance on abortion that is problematic. It favours same-sex marriage and same-sex adoption. Its attitude towards denominational schools is also a problem.
Won't someone please think of the children?! :shock:

I won't be voting Labour myself (not due to Mr Quinns advice though) but I hope they remember the Iona institute if they find themselves in goverment after the 25th.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analy ... 35719.html
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ctr
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Re: A vote for Labour is a vote for abortion

Post by ctr » Fri Feb 11, 2011 11:34 pm

I am canvassing with the Labour party in Waterford and this came up in one town only at about 4 doors.

People understand that the next government has to legislate.

Those raising it will never vote Labour anyway.

Saying that this is gutter journalism by Quinn but matches his form to date.
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Re: A vote for Labour is a vote for abortion

Post by Dr Raskolnikov » Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:50 am

This wangs chump.

I still find it beyond reckoning that a gyrovaginous mendicant like Quinn can pull self-serving copy filler like this out of his arse when the rest of us are busily trying to live in what's left of the real world.
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins the movie by telling you how it ends. Well, I say there are some things we don't want to know. Important things. - Ned Flanders
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Re: A vote for Labour is a vote for abortion

Post by Mirthomaniac » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:58 pm

> Labour is pro-abortion
> Gilmore is an Atheist
> Labour has a lot of support.

Cue Vatican decrying Ireland for allowing hateful atheism to undermine all that is good in the world. Seriously, though.
And from a Catholic and Christian point of view, it is not only Labour's stance on abortion that is problematic. It favours same-sex marriage and same-sex adoption.
Is this guy seriously comparing the abortion issue to same sex marriage and adoption? Is this man mentally handicapped? (cue jokes about religion qualifying as a mental handicap. Ba-dum-tish, etc.)

I'm very tired of people hiding behind 'the unborn' as a credible defense of an absolute ban on abortion. Nobody cares less about the unborn than 'God', given that 60-80% of embryos are apparenly flushed out naturally. In fact, existence as we know it is a constant struggle against entropy. We are not 'destined' to be born once fertilisation occurs. Our existence can be quantified as the proverbial 'rounding error' in our own calculations. Every single situation is more complex than just 'freedom of choice versus foetus-cide (or possibly embryocide). Ethics - flexible, variable ethics - are completely at odds with religious absolutism.
At a minimum, neither Fine Gael nor Fianna Fail is setting out to do harm to the poor and the sick, whereas Labour's policy on abortion would do very deliberate harm to the unborn. That is not a prudential judgement. That is a fact.


'deliberate' harm? Seriously? This is exactly why I will never identify as pro-choice, pro-abortion, or anything like it. By definition the terms seem to advocate killing babies. That is not what I want if (when?) I vote yes on legalising abortion in the future. I want things to be open to ethical scrutiny, not religious mandates.
Heading into Mass on Sunday I spotted the local Fine Gael and Labour candidates canvassing outside. The presence of the Labour candidate struck me as odd, to put it mildly. Labour party policy is pro-abortion. Therefore, on a very important issue Labour is utterly at variance with the beliefs of the vast majority of serious-minded practising Catholics.
.

It's quite clear, folks. If you think abortion is ok, you should just stop going to church. And I love the oxymoron at the end there: 'serious-minded practising Catholics'.
oldrnwisr
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Re: A vote for Labour is a vote for abortion

Post by oldrnwisr » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:18 pm

Mirthomaniac wrote:Is this guy seriously comparing the abortion issue to same sex marriage and adoption? Is this man mentally handicapped?
Yes he is. Even a cursory examination of the articles on the Iona Institute website or his blog on the Irish Catholic website will confirm this. Among his many instances of verbal diarrhoea are:

Atheist Ireland is really Anti-Religion Ireland
http://www.irishcatholic.ie/site/conten ... on-ireland

Maths etc to be used to teach kids about gay issues
http://www.ionainstitute.net/index.php?id=1270

Blaming religion, blaming Darwinism
http://www.irishcatholic.ie/site/conten ... -darwinism

The Day of the Triffids; the Wrath of God?
http://www.irishcatholic.ie/site/conten ... -wrath-god

Mithromaniac wrote:In fact, existence as we know it is a constant struggle against entropy.
No offence, Mithromaniac, but did you have to mention entropy? I get enough headaches from debating creationists and their twisted idea of what entropy is without any of us doing the same.
"Science doesn't know everything. Religion doesn't know anything." AronRa - WAC 2011
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Re: A vote for Labour is a vote for abortion

Post by Mirthomaniac » Sat Feb 19, 2011 11:40 pm

oldrnwisr wrote: No offence, Mithromaniac, but did you have to mention entropy? I get enough headaches from debating creationists and their twisted idea of what entropy is without any of us doing the same.
Ha ha! Being a budding scientist (JF Science at the moment, so nothing proper) I mean it in the strict sense implied by thermodynamics. We are in a battle against randomisation; the spreading out of 'us', or our energy, and the only tool we have in postponing this (of course, we always lose in the end) is our metabolism. No airy-fairy nineteenth century words like 'disorder' here, boss. The point is, or was intended to be, that we are not in any way protected or 'sacred' per se. We have the exact same struggles as all other organisms on this planet, and we all obey the exact same physical laws. To assert that human life itself is somehow sacred is absurd.

Note: I don't mean that human life shouldn't be viewed as more significant than the average metazoan. I mean to say that there are better ethical standpoints to approach from. 'Suffering and how to limit it' would be one, although I myself sometimes struggle with what I truly believe in this respect.
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Re: A vote for Labour is a vote for abortion

Post by chemicals » Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:06 am

Mirthomaniac wrote:Ha ha! Being a budding scientist (JF Science at the moment, so nothing proper)
Correct-look up -accessable microstates and and boltzman's distribution :D
والقس هو مجنون
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Re: A vote for Labour is a vote for abortion

Post by Mirthomaniac » Sun Feb 20, 2011 3:14 pm

chemicals wrote:
Mirthomaniac wrote:Ha ha! Being a budding scientist (JF Science at the moment, so nothing proper)
Correct-look up -accessable microstates and and boltzman's distribution :D
the Boltzman distribution has been covered too, along with accessible energy levels, quanta, and microstates. However, I consider the 'energy dispersal' explanation (as given in a more 'macro' way) better suited to the more philosophical applications of the concept.

Obviously microstates explain the same thing more quantitatively. Either perspective is better than 'order versus disorder', of course.
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