Geert Wilders' party to win big in Holland

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munsterdevil
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Re: Geert Wilders' party to win big in Holland

Post by munsterdevil » Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:43 pm

Going back to the original purpose of this thread, but it is not a massive surprise, as countries often tend to vote for right leaning parties in recessionary times.
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Tulip1
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Re: Geert Wilders' party to win big in Holland

Post by Tulip1 » Thu Aug 20, 2009 8:59 am

munsterdevil wrote:Going back to the original purpose of this thread, but it is not a massive surprise, as countries often tend to vote for right leaning parties in recessionary times.
The dutch vote for wilders because he is the only one to criticise the islam. It makes me sad to see he is the only one. It is not new though and has nothing to do with recessionary times. We had Pim Fortuyn when we had agood economical climate, he was hugh and branded extreem right, whch he was not!! He came from Labour and had very subtile views (nothing like that idiot Wilders). He came with solutions and not just shouting populistic feelings.

I think you are insulting the interlect of the dutch, we have had lots of foreighners in the recession before this one and never became a rightwing party so big. The Dutch as a whole had enough of the influance of the islam and a lot of us reacted on voting for the christian party's. They are now in power for over 8 years and forcing the christian falues down our necks bring us back to the 50s. Maybe that is why a lot of people resort on voting for this idiot. It will however pressure the excisting party's to reflect and that is the only good thing I can think of. Not that the christian party's will change their views but hey a person can hope.
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Re: Geert Wilders' party to win big in Holland

Post by Ygern » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:06 am

I remember that Ayaan Hirsi Ali said something similar in her book Infidel. She was also a supporter of Pim Fortuyn and was surprised to find that many voters were prepared to brand them both as right wing for their outspoken criticism of Islam's cultural practises.
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lostexpectation
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Re: Geert Wilders' party to win big in Holland

Post by lostexpectation » Thu Aug 20, 2009 2:27 pm

Ayaan Hirsi Ali was called very right wing because she is very right wing
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Re: Geert Wilders' party to win big in Holland

Post by Ygern » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:26 pm

Oh please. She's right-wing in the same way as Muhammad Ali was a ballet dancer.

There's an interview with her here at Point of Inquiry or you can download the MP3 here http://libsyn.com/media/pointofinquiry/ ... si_Ali.mp3

And you can check out her AHA foundation here where she indulges in such right-wing activities as raising awareness of: "the rights of women and girls to security and control of their own bodies, the rights of women and girls to an education, the rights of women to work outside the home and to control their own income, the rights of women and girls to freedom of expression and association, and the rights of women and girls to other basic civil rights of citizens..."
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Re: Geert Wilders' party to win big in Holland

Post by smiffy » Thu Aug 20, 2009 6:25 pm

Ygern wrote:Oh please. She's right-wing in the same way as Muhammad Ali was a ballet dancer.
Well, she was an elected representative of the VVD which, by Dutch standards, is a right-wing party (right-wing economically, like the PDs, rather than socially right-wing, like Christian Democrat parties across Europe). She's also a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. The term 'right-wing' is hardly that unfair.
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lostexpectation
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Re: Geert Wilders' party to win big in Holland

Post by lostexpectation » Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:16 pm

Ygern wrote:Oh please. She's right-wing in the same way as Muhammad Ali was a ballet dancer.

There's an interview with her here at Point of Inquiry or you can download the MP3 here http://libsyn.com/media/pointofinquiry/ ... si_Ali.mp3

And you can check out her AHA foundation here where she indulges in such right-wing activities as raising awareness of: "the rights of women and girls to security and control of their own bodies, the rights of women and girls to an education, the rights of women to work outside the home and to control their own income, the rights of women and girls to freedom of expression and association, and the rights of women and girls to other basic civil rights of citizens..."
yeah and bush gave loads of money to aids charities
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Re: Geert Wilders' party to win big in Holland

Post by Tulip1 » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:17 am

smiffy wrote:
Ygern wrote:Oh please. She's right-wing in the same way as Muhammad Ali was a ballet dancer.
Well, she was an elected representative of the VVD which, by Dutch standards, is a right-wing party (right-wing economically, like the PDs, rather than socially right-wing, like Christian Democrat parties across Europe). She's also a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. The term 'right-wing' is hardly that unfair.
Sorry you are very wrong here, the VVD is not considered very right wing at all! its concidered center right. They are a party for small and mid bussiness.
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Re: Geert Wilders' party to win big in Holland

Post by smiffy » Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:35 am

Tulip1 wrote:Sorry you are very wrong here, the VVD is not considered very right wing at all! its concidered center right. They are a party for small and mid bussiness.
Yes, as I said - right-wing economically (even to the right of the CDA, as well as D66 and certainly well to the right of the PvdA). Do you dispute this? If so, I'd point you to the Wikipedia entry on Dutch political parties which states:
The Volkspartij voor Vrijheid en Democratie (VVD) is a conservative liberal party. It thus attaches great importance to private enterprise and the freedom of the individual in political, social, and economic affairs. The party is generally supportive of European economic integration, but is less supportive of political integration. The VVD is generally seen as the most right wing of the major parties, though the List Pim Fortuyn took a position to the right of the VVD. Mark Rutte leads the VVD. The VVD is a member of the Liberal International.
Now, Wikipedia is not, of course, an infallible source, but the description above seems fair to me. Would you agree/disagree that the party the VVD most resembles on the Irish political spectrum is (or, rather, would have been) the Progressive Democrats, and that the PDs are/were generally considered to be a right-wing party, in the sense that I am talking about?
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Re: Geert Wilders' party to win big in Holland

Post by Tulip1 » Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:56 pm

If the VVD is extreem right the PVDA is extreem left. (They are closer then they care to admit)

The PVV from wilders is not close to the VVD but more near the CD a few years ago (confusingly CD stands for centrum democraten). D66 is really a proper center party and progresive (and green) in a lot of things. Now I have had a steam course in Irish politics last election but got nothing on the PD. Will google them and let you know.

I have to say that the VVD moved more towards the center the last years. Most party's in the Netherlands agree on most issues and only dissagree on budget most of the time (I generalise here ofcourse). The only outsides we have are the very religous Christen Unie (one of the party's didn't allow woman to join before they melted in one very religous group and in the coalition!!!), the PVV from Wilders and in the left corner SP (a left wing party in favour of compulsory Dutch lessons for foreighnors) Groen links ( a green party that put that claims green for the left, don't get that, everybody should be minimum a bit green)

And by this I end your steam course Dutch politics :wink:

And I moved to Ireland and discussing Dutch Politics on a Irish forum, haha how ironic is that! :lol:
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
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