VECs want greater admin role in state schools

Issues relating to promoting a secular state education and raising children in a non-religious home
lostexpectation
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VECs want greater admin role in state schools

Post by lostexpectation » Sun Aug 23, 2009 9:47 pm

http://www.sbpost.ie/post/pages/p/story ... qqqx=1.asp
A motion at next month’s Irish Vocational Education Association (IVEA) annual convention will call for options to be explored that would see the VECs take on extra responsibilities - mainly administrative - in state schools.

‘‘Life is about evolution. VECs are statutory educational authorities and we have to look at the support that we could give to other education providers in a non-threatening way,” he said. <a bit lame that

‘We could help schools, mainly primary, with building projects, site acquisitions, HR support and management and support with IT. There are many ways we could look at how VECs could develop and support boards of management which could concentrate on the education side of things.”
doesn't seem like theyre interested in being the new schools, ,the dept of eds schools with inbuilt religion seem to the way its going.


meanwhile the orders and churches have missed a number of deadlines to tell us what they are worth.
test
bannedreborn
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Re: VECs want greater admin role in state schools

Post by bannedreborn » Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:32 am

Even if the VECs took over the new schools, this would not help. A quick review of VECs schools in Dublin show that they have also appointed 'trustees' from churches (mainly private catholic groups) which then take weighted (compared with teachers, VEC and parents) permanant places on the boards of management, and dictate policy. In the case of the new local VEC school, they have post-opening managed to rename the school to a religious name, sabotage an extention building to include a pervasive church at the expense of classrooms* and, in an example of humility, named the library after one of their 'trustees'.

Unlike the primary system, this is not a constituational requirement, and is something that is put in place purely by the VECs by their church members. So while VEC schools looks like an escape from the convent/brothers models, unless this 'trustee' mechanism is removed, it looks like every Mary, Malik, Mai and Michael will have to pay out (€25 this year) for biased religion books** from the Catholic press.

What chance has any kid got in this bloody country??

* the board of management stated that the religious order contribute an undisclosed amount besides the non-vested groups (parents & government schools fund)
** The 250,000 Atheist/agnotistic/humanist get one breakout box, and that is linked with an even bigger box describing 'materialists'.
Feardorcha
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Re: VECs want greater admin role in state schools

Post by Feardorcha » Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:19 am

My daughter attended the local VEC school yesterday for the first time.
The school had two flags flying. The Green Flag awarded for environmental work and the Papal flag.
When we signed on earlier in the year, one of the compulsory subjects was 'religion'. We queried this and were told the subject looked at all religions. I checked the text and discovered it was in fact Catholic religious instruction. We opted out and were told this required a letter written to the principal. This we did, saying our child was an atheist.
We were then told she would have to sit in the class during Catholic instruction as there were no other rooms available. We didn't object.
At the introductory English class yesterday, the English teacher said that each class would begin with a prayer. My daughter told her she was an atheist and the 'English' teacher told her that being an atheist was 'totally wrong'.
The drama teacher is a nun.
It is clear that the VEC regards its role as consolidating the Catholic faith. However, they have no previous experience of my daughter. When she was in Primary school, she drove the visiting priests (of which there were many) to distraction. And such was her effect on other students that she was required to sit at the back and read during lectures.
I regard it as wholly unacceptable that a state school makes no provision for non-Catholics and await developments with interest.
I often remind her of one of my atheist heros, a friend of mine from Mullingar, who for the entire of his school life refused to stand for the Angelus. He was struck across the face at noon every day for for five years.
Tulip1
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Re: VECs want greater admin role in state schools

Post by Tulip1 » Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:01 pm

I'm getting very worried for when my kids go to school. I hope my kids wil be like your daugther Feardorcha. You brought up a very strong child indeed. My respect and I hope I my kids will be the same.

The primary school here seems to be alright and has facilities for people who are not wanting the religious lessons.
Pope says atheists pick & choose their morals. Correct. Today I will be frowning on child abuse & not having a problem with homosexuality.
Dev
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Re: VECs want greater admin role in state schools

Post by Dev » Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:07 pm

Feardorcha wrote: I often remind her of one of my atheist heros, a friend of mine from Mullingar, who for the entire of his school life refused to stand for the Angelus. He was struck across the face at noon every day for for five years.
He probably found it difficult to stand due to his giant granite balls.
Feardorcha
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Re: VECs want greater admin role in state schools

Post by Feardorcha » Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:28 pm

Hi Tulip,
Our experience in the local primary school was very positive but I am not looking forward to the battles with the VEC.
One thing I think that is worth doing is to write to the Dept of Education and tell them you are an atheist and ask them for the name of the nearest appropriate school. They will, of course, give you the name of the local school but this will arm you in the event of any 'patron' or other interfering cleric bothering your child.
Again from my experience it was very useful for us parents and our children to declare that we are atheists. We found that the children of many fellow-travellers, a-la-carte Catholics and woolly thinkers ended up confused over things like Holy Communions and the thousand tricks the Catholic Church has to subvert your views - like slipping their doctrine into ethics, sex education and just about everywhere. Good luck.
Dev: Was that meant to be funny or just demeaning? It is very revealing.
lostexpectation
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Re: VECs want greater admin role in state schools

Post by lostexpectation » Sun Aug 30, 2009 12:39 pm

terrible which vec is that bannedreborn?
test
Beebub
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Re: VECs want greater admin role in state schools

Post by Beebub » Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:55 pm

At the introductory English class yesterday, the English teacher said that each class would begin with a prayer. My daughter told her she was an atheist and the 'English' teacher told her that being an atheist was 'totally wrong'.
That's unbelieveable. My eldest starts primary school on Tuesday. We've been told that it includes religious education but that parents have the option to have their kids sit it out. For now we've decided not to go that far, but if he came home saying something like this I'd hit the roof!
Feardorcha
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Re: VECs want greater admin role in state schools

Post by Feardorcha » Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:10 am

Strongly urge that you opt out Bebub. Nail your colours to the mast early and there can be no confusion - better for the kids, for you and even for the teachers.
Well, it worked for me.
Best of luck!
Beebub
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Re: VECs want greater admin role in state schools

Post by Beebub » Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:38 am

Yeah. Going to 'go with the flow' for the moment and see how it goes. It's not easy I have to say. Your objective is always what you think is best for your child. I hate having to make the decision, in a state paid for school. It makes my blood boil. Grr! Ok, and breath...

I might try to establish how many others are like us in the school/ in my kid's year. The headmaster told us at a meeting recently that last year 2 kids didn't make their communion out of 50 kids, I was astonished. So I think we'll just wait and see how it goes for the moment.
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